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If you're not depressed by this vast deforestation, you're a lot tougher than I am. I wonder what we'll see here in 2 years and how much more area the yellow runoff will cover at the mouth of the Amazon. Edit: In response to Budd1's comment that there must be sadder places on Earth, I've edited my title from "Saddest" to "Sad..." I strive for accuracy!
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Hi diane9247! You are right, it is terribly sad to see this kind of deforestation on Google Earth. However I sometimes feel a bit sorry for Brazil in all this, and the flak that they are receiving. think it is important to remember that many of us currently live in completely deforested ex-forest. Vast tracts of the USA and Australia, for example, and certainly virtually all of Europe, were once thickly forested. And we owe a great deal of our current prosperity to the fact that our forefathers (rightly or wrongly) deforested them. We are much more aware of it now, and conscious of the damage we are doing to our planet. But like I said, we can thank our own previous environmental vandalism for the fact that we are now wealthy enough to invent computers, buy one and look at the effects of entirely similar processes happening today. I'm not saying that I agree with the deforestation of the Amazon! I think it is terrible. I just sometimes feel that Brazil is getting a lot of bad press in all this. I think there are many ways that we can help, every day, to help put an end to this kind of thing for example by not eating at places like McDonalds who obtain their meat (or have in the past) from cleared land in these countries and also by supporting developing countries by buying products from them and trading fairly with them for example by lifting our own agricultural import quotas and allowing free trade. |
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Heamit - I completely agree with everything in your post. I do flatter myself in thinking I have an unusual perspective, being an Oregon logger's daughter. And grand-daughter. Those guys suffered greatly and have never really recovered from clear-cutting like mad in the '40s & '50s. I remember my dad talking about how it couldn't possibly last at that pace. Most loggers were mad as hell that they weren't allowed, finally, to keep going to the Canadian border. So, it's taken at least another generation for new forests & tree farms to mature in a money-making way. It will never be like "the old days" again, it just can't sustain that volume of harvesting. I can't help but see a parallel with Brazil now and Oregon in the good old days. Brazil is on an enormous scale, though, and you really can't replant a rainforest. Whole different kettle of fish. Excuse the inappropriate metaphor. I feel sorry for the Brazilian farmers who have been starved out of the cities and are desperate to feed their families. But, I just think things are too dire NOT to scream about what Brazil is doing. I wish people had screamed way sooner about the N. CA redwoods and the OR forests. Anyway, thanks for listening. D. |
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Hi again ![]() Thank you for the interesting insights about Oregon. ![]() A while back I found some interesting shapes cut into a forest in Slovakia. Community member syzygy, who is very environmentally aware, pointed out that these shapes could be due to sustainable forestry practices and arranged to have the thread moved to the Environment forum. If you are interested, have a look here
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Thanks, I'll take a look. Also some huge areas in far-north CA with clearcuts in a checkerboard pattern. I can think of a couple of environmental/ecological reasons the state makes them do that, but one friend's cynical remark was "so when we drive by on the highway we won't see the full damage!" Now, on to Slovakia... |
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I think that you do not need to go into the center of the Slovakia to find some clearcuts. There is a plenty of them even in the protected wood park area nearby Bratislava, capitol of the Slovak republic. The wood cutting in this area still continue. Anybody who can help to stop it is welcome. |
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Well it's actually a common practice now to clear cut in areas that aren't visible from major roadways, hypothetically because it reduces visual aesthetic value, but I believe it's the out of sight out of mind principle... which is the same logic behind exporting all our waste. If less people see it they face less communal opposition and thus, less money is wasted in law suits and upheld projects..... crafty, but sad. As for the Amazon pic, I actually shed a tear.... it's like scar tissue on a heart. That area needs to be protected some how (and yes I know, we need to think of the economic condition of the residents too.) |
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hi diane 9247,i am pretty certain that there are sadder places than this on earth . |
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I am not very knowledgeable about these things, but down here in New Zealand, in my many weekend drives in the country north of Auckland, the management of green spaces seems done on a well planned schedule. All hill slopes from the bottom up to the peak are covered with trees grown for commercial use. The vast outlying farmland around the hill is used for agriculture and grazing, mainly for grazing-New Zealand is sheep country!!! The 'forested' cluster of trees on the hill slopes is cut down one section at one time, and is immediately seeded(?) or planted with fresh saplings; and I suppose there is a law governing this activity that the farmer is not to cut down the other sections of trees untill the new saplings grow into young plants. I suppose this kind of cooperation and enlightened activity can be expected in a country with a small population (NZ has around 4.3 million people.) geveN |
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My guess is that unless someone maintains it, In 20 years you wont be able to pick out this spot from google earth. That forest is the fastest growing forest in the world. I thought the rain forest should have been totally destroyed by know if you remember the rate that they said it was going back in the 80's. now 20 years later its still vast and mostly untouched! Just shows you what a bunch of liars the greens are! |
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Does the last guy really believe what he's saying or just stirring - it's not a greeny issue at all - it's a global concern. At the rate this type of forest is being removed it is already effecting bio diversity (extinctions) and climate modulations. It is definately not growing faster than it is being removed !!!! The map is clearly showing us that much.
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Hi drtbkdav and welcome to Google Earth Quote: Have a look at Europe. At most of North America. At most of the east coast of Australia. All of these places were once densely forested. If you want to go back just a little further, have a look at North Africa! (Sahara). The fact is that forests do not grow back. The area will either be used for farming or other human exploitation (as in the first couple of examples I gave you) or it degenerates to desert due to erosion (as in the latter). And even in those cases where it does grow back, it will usually not be in the form it once was (due to the destroyed ecosystem as explained by the previous poster) but as scrub land or savanna. Quote: I don't know whether this comment is terribly helpful... |
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Quote: If you look in your Webster's under "hyperbole," you might find the above quoted as an example.
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Hi Diane, Cutting down the Amazon forest is certainly sad. The images however are in many way's similar to large parts of Europe. We cut down most our forests long ago. Unfortunately it gives us little right to speak up against Brazilians. It's a classic dilemma of environmental issues. For the good of us all we should want to conserve the remaining natural forests, but the economic forces are otherwise. In fact we can't have our beefburgers or spicy chicken if it weren't for the cattle grazing and soybean fields in the Amazon. Which brings me to my real question for this forum. I've included a pin to a place somewhere just south of the amazon forest, in the north of the Mato Grosso. To me it looks like a a pretty dry and deserted place, but there are signs it was once covered in forest. But at regular spaces you see double squares of a light blue/ green colour, and paths leading to it. My guess is they are waterhole for cattle. Diane, as you know (see my forum discussion 'Inspired by Google Earth') I'm interested in using Google Earth as a source of inspiration for my paintings. But before I start on a new painting I want to know what it is I'm seeing. If I want to get a strong image of a 'sad place on earth' accross I need to be sure this really was primordial forest not so long ago, and that this really is a place where beefburgers to be graze whats left to graze. So: does anybody out there know what this image means? |
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Hi budd1! I couldn't agree more with you! India is one such sad example of deforestation. This is being looked upon as a national emergency along with saving the Tigers ( numbers of which are dwindling away - caused by deforestation and destructuion of their natural habitat!). The tree planting programs have taken off with a bang and ended in a whimper as corruption outweighs incentives.
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drtbkdav: The perspective you have provided necessitates a close examination of this topic. A superficial look at a second growth forest from above may give the impression that it has recovered from clear-cutting. However, undisturbed tropical rainforests are among the most biologically diverse of all ecosystems. When one of these forests is clearcut, a great number of species that depend on the trees for food and habitat are destroyed as well. These include rare orchids, other plants, birds, insects, and many other species, quite likely, some of which have not even been recognized, yet. Many of these tree-dependent species only begin to return after the trees have re-established themselves and are reaching maturity. Once the tree-dependent species have returned, other species that, in turn, depend on them might begin a comeback. Erosion, leaching of released nutrients, and other physical changes that follow clear-cutting add to the complexity of the recovery situation. As a result of the intricate set of interdependencies involving the physical and biological environment, many types of tropical and temperate forest require a long time for true recovery. During this period, some of the rare species with small natural ranges may become lost forever. People who are unable to appreciate these species for their own sake should remember that a lost species may have been one that had medical or other utilitarian potential. A recovering ecosystem seen in an aerial photo may not actually be as "green" as it appears. We need to take a deeper look at the systems that sustain us before we engage in uninformed and potentially destructive actions. This is true in one's own community (mine, included) as well as the rest of the world. |
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Hi Evert -Yes, I believe those are cattle ponds. The odd thing, as you stated, is that one is light and the other darker blue-green. I found another such example in American cattle country (perhaps South Dakota?), but it was very late last night and I didn't think to mark it - though I did think of your question. There were two side-by-side, not quite so perfect as yours, more free-form, but definitely manmade and in known cattle ranch territory. And, one was dark, the other light! If it was S.D., it was an area that was never forested. If I find them again I'll add them here.As for your point about expecting Brazil to toe the line, when Europe and the US didn't - I do understand that and agree we shouldn't be self-righteous. But, we humans know a lot more now than we did in the previous centuries. Among the differences: population, which is so far out of control now it is nearly impossible to restrict demand for any resource until it's irretrievable. How can we not try, though? Brazil has a chance to lead the world in preventing complete deforestation - and I suspect that Indonesia, or the Dem. Republic of Congo, either can't or won't ever do it. They have endless wars and political upheavals to contend with - the perfect atmosphere for a resource free-for-all. Who knows, yet, whether China will have the incentive to conserve resources, much less curb demand. (I read an article today, while waiting for an appointment , about the massive export of soybeans, which you mention, from Brazil to China.) They are relative newcomers to the practice of consuming and selling all manner of goods and raking in gobs of money, so I don't blame them for thinking "to hell with you people telling us what to do - don't deny us our day!" I just hope the US, lost in its own quagmire for six years, can join with Europe to use friendly means to change the practice of deforestation around the globe - using themselves as the best examples of what should not be done. It might require that we give up some of the comfy lifestyle and the piles of money we've gained while depleting our resources and much of theirs, in order to assist Brazil, et al., with common-sense resource management. All very high-blown, and easy for me to say... but I do worry about the very habitability of the earth and hate to see us ignoring the duty that belongs to us all. I don't want to live in one enormous Haiti, the current microcosm of what our great-grandchildren could face. Quote: Diane |
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is there any original woods in Euro? |
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Hi sateliteoflove, I agree - it certainly looks like a set of water holes. This is an interesting and important thread and I like to monitor it. Not wanting to change the subject or anything : but I find it incredibly curious how the 'newgrowth' trees around this area are spaced. They are not at all haphazard, but very evenly (albeit irregularly) spaced some 50 to 80 feet between each one. It seems most unlikely to me that new growth would regenerate in this manner. One would expect 'clumps' of vegetation determined by the fall of seeds and happenstance. However these trees look almost as though they were sprinkled evenly about the landscape. While not wishing to deviate from the topic of this thread per se - I do wonder what makes the trees grow back like this? Far apart and with no shrubbery etc in between? |
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Hi Heamit This vegetation pattern is almost certainly due to grazing. The individual trees and groups of trees will be tall enough so that their branches are out of reach of grazing animals. Or they may be thorny or unpalatable species. The area between them will be grazed so that trees cannot regenerate. This can actually be a very sustainable mixture of forestry and agriculture - enough grazing for livestock with trees producing timber, fruit and nuts. The trees can also offer shade for the livestock. |
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Hi fsev Forestry can be sustainable. The clear cuts that you (and others) have identified are relatively small, suggesting they are part of a managed system. They will almost certainly be replanted. Even a 'protected' area can allow sustainable management. A lot of Slovakia (and Czech) was planted with large areas of single species (monoculture) and often non-native species. There has been a big change in forestry practice recently and there is a move to small plots of mixed species. This helps protect against disease (especially bark beetle attacks) and events such as the devastating wind throw in Slovakia in November 2004 (200kph winds, 4.7 million cubic metres of timber destroyed). http://www.fao.org/regional/SEUR/events/Zvolen/docs/ReportMoA.pdf http://www.flickr.com/photos/63667026@N00/397732438 Cau |
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Hi xtaaxt ’’is there any original woods in Euro?’’ you ask. In western and central Europe the answer is no. Before humans arrived Europe would have been largely forested. But almost every piece of land in Europe has now been influenced by human activity, either directly (felling trees) or indirectly (grazing by domesticated animals). In the UK we have ‘Ancient woodland’, but this is considered to be land continuously wooded since AD1600 (hardly ‘ancient’, but the wildlife associated with such sites is very important). Other European countries have similar classifications. So, although there may be an old forest near you it is likely to have undergone many changes throughout history and will not be ‘original’. Even if the forest has been there for centuries, it’s structure will have changed due to the effects of sheep, cattle, and even deer populations which have been introduced and maintained by humans. It’s only when you go east that you start to find ‘original woods’. The forests of eastern Poland are considered as such. They are ‘primaeval’ – almost untouched by human activity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82owieski_National_Park |
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[Not wanting to change the subject or anything : but I find it incredibly curious how the 'newgrowth' trees around this area are spaced. They are not at all haphazard, but very evenly (albeit irregularly) spaced some 50 to 80 feet between each one. It seems most unlikely to me that new growth would regenerate in this manner. One would expect 'clumps' of vegetation determined by the fall of seeds and happenstance. However these trees look almost as though they were sprinkled evenly about the landscape. While not wishing to deviate from the topic of this thread per se - I do wonder what makes the trees grow back like this? Far apart and with no shrubbery etc in between? Hi Heamit, Good question! I read an article in National Geographic about the decline of the Amazon forest. I understand some of the land is cultivated intensively for a few years after which the soil is leached to such an extent that it's only useful for grazing cattle. I imagine during the cultivated period they might leave a few trees here and there for shade (if it was small scale farming). Grazing cattle can't reach higher branches so the trees remain. Does that sound likely? Evert. |
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Hi Diane, Thanks for the reply. Despite what happens in the Dem Republic of Congo, there are quite large and relatively stable parts of the Congo basin (Camaroon, Guinee, Gabon and the other Congo (Brazzaville) where there is hope for sustainable forestry. Large parts of the forests are protected by law - only sustainable forest management (of the original forest) is allowed. I was lucky to be able to visit several logging companies in the area (3 years ago). Some now have an FSC certificate for sustainable forest management of virtualy virgin forest. They harvest about 3 trees of a certain size per hectare and rotate with a frequency of 30 years. In this way the forest ecology undergoes a minimal and temporary distortion. Areas which are ecologically more sensitive or special (elephant or Gorilla hide outs for instance) are exempted from logging. I thought it was pretty impressive. Some of these consessions were about the size of a third of my country. Well maybe that's still small, my country being smaller than most US states. The difference with Brazil is that in Africa most of the forest is governement owned whereas in Brazil it mostly large landowners who do what they want, the laws can't be enforced. I believe the sustainable use of tropical hardwood could be a sound economic incentive for maintaining tropical forests. If only large consumers (like my own government) decline from using anything but sustainable wood. If you realise that the market value (in US or Europe) of one hardwood tree could be anything up to 10.000 US$, you can work out the rest of the economic picture! I did'nt realise Haiti has become an ecological disaster area. I'll check it out on GE. Bye, Evert. |
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Hi Evert I posted this earlier - but maybe didn't link it properly? ''Hi Heamit This vegetation pattern is almost certainly due to grazing. The individual trees and groups of trees will be tall enough so that their branches are out of reach of grazing animals. Or they may be thorny or unpalatable species. The area between them will be grazed so that trees cannot regenerate. This can actually be a very sustainable mixture of forestry and agriculture - enough grazing for livestock with trees producing timber, fruit and nuts. The trees can also offer shade for the livestock.'' So I agree that your idea definitely sounds likely. Difficult to tell how sustainable this particular area is - it's quite large. |
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Hi Evert ''If only large consumers (like my own government) decline from using anything but sustainable wood'' Absolutely true - we have to make sure that we look for the FSC mark when buying any hardwood product: http://www.fsc.org/en/ |
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Hi diane. My english is very bad but I´ll try it. Yes, it´s a sad place. Compare it with previous years. |
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Hi erreka This is great - shows the problem very clearly. Can you give us some details about why this has happened - is it small scale farming or logging? For local produce or export? Thanks Imp P.S. nothing wrong with your English! |
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Hello Imp.The government built the road Cuiabá-Porto Velho. They finished it in 1960 and it crosses Rondonia. In 1980 the World Bank decided to pave it. The images of 1975 y 1986 show great colonys of immigrants, near the road, in the region of Ariquemes. The "backbones" are the result to cutting the trees to get new lands. Principally, cattle ranches and annual cultivations. Coffee, rubber and cacao, less than 10%. More info: http://www.mongabay.com/brazil.html In Matto Grosso, deforestation grows more faster than the rest of the regions: large mono-cultivations of soy (Maggi group, company of the governor of Matto Grosso), looging... |
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Thanks erreka - interesting info and a good link. Imp |
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Erreka - Your link is VERY informative and graphs/charts are also helpful to illustrate deforestation over the decades (pie chart is from the linked site). I am surprised to see that logging and commercial farming are such a small percentage of the cause! ![]() I have a feeling this has changed somewhat since '05, because lately I've read about the booming business in soybeans in Brazil - and their biggest customer is China. I believe the US is their biggest buyer for cattle. |
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Diane 'I am surprised to see that logging and commercial farming are such a small percentage of the cause!' This could depend on the definition of 'logging'. Although the land is to be used for a specific purpose (agriculture or whatever) one assumes that the trees which are removed to allow this land use are also utilised - firewood, timber, pulp. Therefore the clearance of this land could also be called logging, even if the final land use is different. Perhaps logging in your diagram refers to land cleared specifically for the timber, irrespective of the subsequent land use? It could even be land that is then replanted with timber trees (but is still therefore not rain forest)? Hope that makes sense - it was difficult to describe! Imp P.S. Great pie chart! |
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Diane and Imp. Según Ariovaldo Umbelino, de la universidad de Sao Paulo, los principales motores de la deforestación son: -las madereras, que son las primeras en destruir la selva. -las ganaderías, que ocupan el lugar dejado por las madereras. -los "grileiros" ("ladrones de tierras") que se apropian de las tierras que pertenecen al Estado o a las pequeñas poblaciones. -la presión de los cultivos de grano, principalmente soja, sobre los rancheros. El avance del agronegocio hace que los criadores de ganado abran cada vez más espacio en la selva. En la región de Santarém es el mismo cultivo de soja el que surge en primera línea frente a la zona deforestada. En esta situación tiene mucha importancia el centro (ilegal) de exportación de Cargill en el puerto de Santarém. La "autopista de la soja", BR-163, que une Cuiabá con Santarém llega hasta las propias puertas de la mencionada transnacional (ver adjunto y activar carreteras). Se da la circunstancia de que el presidente Lula ha prometido asfaltar la BR-163 lo que agravará la situación. Devorando la Amazonia ![]() According Ariovaldo Umbelino, of the University of Sao Paulo, the main causers of deforestation are: - logging, which are the first to destroy the jungle. - cattle ranches, they occupy the place left by logging. - the "grileiros" ( "Land thieves") that were appropriated land belonging to the State or small populations. - the pressure of the grain crops, mainly soybeans, on ranchers. The advance of agribusiness makes breeders increasingly open space in the jungle. In the region of Santarem is the same crop of soybeans that arises in the frontline facing the area deforested. In this situation is very important Cargill (illegal) export center in the port of Santarem. The "highway of soybeans", BR-163, which connects Cuiabá with Santarém reaches the gates of the aforementioned transnational (see attachment and activate roads). It is the fact that President Lula has promised (and they are already doing it) to asphalt BR-163 which will aggravate the deforestation. Eating up the Amazon |
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What a sad thread for a sad state of affair's Diane. ........Much has been said about deforestation and the effect's that it is having on our different part's of the Earth. From the early 1980's, Indonesia has been regularly and systematically destroying massive tract's of rainforest in Borneo . "Currently more tropical timber is extracted from Borneo than all of Latin America and Africa combined" a report from MONGABAY.COM state's."Dr Lisa M. Curran has spent a good portion of her professional career studying ecosystems in this area. From 1984 to 2001, she led a comprehensive study documenting the rate of forest loss in Western Kalimantan and surveyed an area of over four million hectares (about 9.9 million acres). The results of her work were published in February 2005 and her findings are numbing" its report states and there are many, many more report's just like it. Google "Borneo deforestation" for more sad news and check out how many timber mill's there are in such a short stretch of river in the kml file attached to see the destruction in all its gory. Australia not only has to deal with our own sometime's massive bushfire's producing tonne's of pollution but also the clearing of land in Borneo has had the added effect of smothering most of Australia every summer with pollution during the burning off of their huge amount of "waste" timber which is piled into mound's and set alight. I have not had a whole summer clear of smog since the mid 1980's. As Indonesia is the 4th most populous nation in the world and only the 16th largest in area, it is no wonder that the population spread to and clearing of rainforest is so prolificate and disturbing. With the advent of knowledge and technology we have been able to prolong and enrich our live's by manipulating nature and its inherent population control's. "Populate or perish" is today's government's catchcry. "Overpopulate, consume, pollute and then perish" is the truth and reality that we as the human race face in the future. Human's. So smart but yet so stupid. Nature will win in the end and when we are gone, all will be well with the Earth. (Until the Sun die's, turn's into a supernova and consume's our solar system anyway.) Conclusion.......The whole world is a sad place but who have we as a species got to blame? I think i need a cheap scotch now that inside my head is also a sad place............Make it a double.
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Farceur - Thanks for adding a discussion of Borneo. I tend to not feel so involved with rainforests in other hemispheres - big mistake! Perhaps Australia is one of the few developed countries with a direct interest in Borneo's destruction of its forests, so I'm glad you're down there paying attention to the damage. I found this image of the Kalimantan region of Borneo on the Monga Bay site you linked (loaded with info!). So, this illustrates very well where your smoky skies come from... ![]() And, lest a new reader of this thread scold Americans and Europeans again for our double standard: it is crucial we "old deforesters" use our mistakes to try influencing the new ones. Now, about Scotch... Yes, this is all very daunting, isn't it? But, getting harder to ignore.
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Awful
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You're right! I agree with you! |
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Maribop's world is shrinking. Mile after square mile of dense rainforest where, for centuries, his people hunted among the trees and tangled vines is vanishing. ![]() For 40 years he lived by the bow, as ignorant of the white man as they were off him - until 1969 when the invaders arrived, bringing with them the greed and diseases of the civilised world. Within a decade those diseases had decimated his people, until there were just 300 of the original 5,000 tribesmen left. Now it is the greed that is threatening the few who remain as illegal loggers rip the heart out of Maribop's hunting grounds. Which is why Maribop and his tribe have turned to the internet for help. Their forest is being raped - and Maribop's people, the Surui, have asked the scientists from Google Earth to help them win a war they once fought with poisoned arrows. Soon, anyone with access to the internet will be able to watch for illegal logging as a Google Earth satellite makes its pass over Maribop's homeland in Brazil and, hopefully, to press the world's governments into action before too much more vanishes beneath the chain saw and bulldozers. Maribop, now 86, says: "Before contact with the outside my life was happy. For a long time we lived with the threat of invaders and our shaman told us that when contact came it would bring massacres and enslave us. Yes, there was a lot of fear." The Surui's spokesman is Maribop's son Chief Almir, who was born just six years after first contact with the so-called civilised world. Almir has travelled the world, including Britain, to protect his culture and their part of the forest and he quickly realised the potential of Google Earth to help them. The first member of his tribe to go to university, he is convinced the internet will win where bows and arrows have failed. Google Earth has grown to 400 million users in just three years, using satellite imagery and 3-D topography and map data to create a virtual world. Most people use it to look at their home or where they are going on holiday. But in June 2007 the company set up Google Earth Outreach, developing internet tools to improve Google maps with non-profit organisations. They have come to the Surui village to launch the Brazil Outreach project which they hope will be a model for other indigenous tribes in Brazil and around the world. It will provide a 21st century window to their world and may, at last, keep the loggers at bay. Google project manager Rebecca Moore said: "Chief Almir told us he realised it was time to put down the bow and pick up the laptop. "He asked us to train his people so they could tell their story, their history and the beauty of their land and culture and gain support from the world to fight the loss of the forest. At the moment their territory is just a green blob on Google Earth. We knew we could help not just with Google maps, but with blogs and You Tube because they have videos of their elders. Imagine you could fly through Surui territory watching parrots and jaguars. Or you could show the site of first contact and click on it and see an image or a video or an interview with an elder telling a story of life before contact. "Or visit the site of an important battle or where they gather medicinal plants and berries and discover why these plants are important to them and the world. But it is up to them what they do with it once we have trained them how to add their own stuff. "The way they greeted me into their village was very moving. I don't understand all their traditions but I could see just great respect." Mark Aubin, one of the founders of Google Earth is also on the team. He said: "I am not sure yet how the Surui people are going to use it. But I try to imagine how people could use our tools, being here in the village and seeing how people live very differently from me gives me ideas how they might do it." Chief Almir plans to use Google to show their plans to replant the 7,000 hectares they have lost with 80,000 saplings and 40,000 fruit trees with the help of partners like Swiss charity AquaVerde and to develop sustainable goods from Surui land. "It is possible to have knowledge of life and a good wealth without having to destroy or curse or hurt the forest," he says. "This is not because we are better than others, but to show our concern and the danger the land is in. "People who live in the forest and believe in the forest are considered naive. But the people who are really naive are those who are destroying the forest and, like children, don't know what they are doing. We believe there is a way to achieve a better world with a standing forest. "It is also very important for the Surui people themselves to understand technology is an instrument and a partner in this search. "Each person should be proud of their own people's history. I am honoured to have been born a member of the Surui people. His father Maribop hopes the history of the Surui people and the knowledge they can offer lives on through Google "I have lived in this place for a long time and I have walked very far to be here. I learned from my own father. Even though I have contact now with non-Indians I am always an Indian and I am proud to be who I am. "They should teach that the forest is everything. Even the people who live in cities are there because of the forest. We are maintaining our forest because we love the forest and we love the land. "The forest touches everyone in some way ... it is within everything." Tracking the tree smugglers The destruction of the forest came home to us when we came across two illegal logging lorries loaded with trees just a few miles from the Surui village. Loggers sneak onto the conservation lands to cut down trees during the day, leave them to rest and then steal them away under the cover of darkness Depending on the tree, a trunk can fetch £250 to £500 and are processed at legal mills that turn illegal at night. Around three-quarters of the illegal wood is used in Brazil because it is difficult to get export licences. The soil is poor beneath the trees so cleared land becomes scrub and the soil washes away silting up rivers and killing river fish, something the tribes that live there are fighting hard to end. Vasco van Roosmalen, director of Brazil programmes for the Amazon Conservation Team said: "It is simple. Where you have Indians you have forests; where you don't have Indians, you don't have forests. That is what the satellite pictures show already." www.actbrasil.org.br to see the work of the Amazon Conservation Team Source: Daily Mirror |
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This is wonderful news and the best use of GE imaginable. Hope the trend grows and greedy parties learn that "we're watching you." ![]() Diane |
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Excellent overlays, erreka. Thank you!
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Thank you, heamit. ![]() Groovy: The Surui territory has become an islet of vegetation in the middle of the jungle, since the Surui have managed to avoid deforestation caused by logging companies, miners, gold prospectors and, lately, soybean growers. The struggle of this Indian tribe, which even has costed human lives, has now received support from Google, which has yielded ten computers with satellite connection and technical assistance, to monitor by means of Google-Earth program their reservation. The tribe has already proved its technological prowess, creating sophisticated maps of the reservation after receiving handheld GPS devices and laptop computers from the Amazon Conservation Team. The land is still in constant danger. Chief Almir Naramayoga Surui said that 300 sawmills, which employ 4000 people, surrounding his people and other indigenous reserves in the area. So far 11 local chiefs have died trying to protect their territory, and the reward for Almir´s head is R$50000. Almir tested Google Earth and as almost everyone looked their territory. He realized logging, and knew he could have one eye in the sky to report the coordinates of any logging or mining. Paiter Surui Surui in GE
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Quote: Well, that's the point! The economic condition of locals tends naturally be always equal to that of ourselves. Therefore, the only way to protect forests is to live more simple life... We want have good flat, lots of money (for travelling in many places etc.), want upgrade our computer, buy a newer handphone etc. Mother Nature pays for all this... While we ourselves talk about need to protect Nature, we're keep destroying the last! (As for myself, recently I made a simple house from wasted bamboo (someone broke a lot), and now I live in it. We conduct tree planting and other such programs in Indonesia). Alex (+62-81916325839) |
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Quote: I fully agree with all what you said, except the speed of growth for the most beautiful, largest, canopy-making trees is definitely less than man's lifespan. And also: "vast and mostly untouched". Did you go in field? I know (from my own experience) that most of "untouched rainforests" that we see using Google Earth, aren't forests anymore! I told this in "Giant deforestation"- thread already. Here I just "copy and paste" what was said there: ...By the way, you know - so many places on Earth look like forests, but aren't forests at all. One instance, as I said above: high speed of destruction... Some areas were cleared off trees just few months ago, so these deserted places aren't shown - simply because the Google team cannot update all images as fast as greedy folks destroy the Earth. There is also another "trick" about forest images... I thought I see good tropical forests in some places until I actually went there (in field) myself and discovered that these are in fact huge plantations of commercial trees and brushwoods instead of forests. Expensive experience! Some of my "adventurous trips" thus became a mere waste of time... (Well, at least I warn you now). For example, rubber tree plantations in Indonesia. They can look very similar to a rainforest (from space). Coffee, cacao, and other plantations in tropics are often made under several remaining tree canopy. As result, from space it is impossible to understand what is seen below... You plan a trip, thinking you gonna meet orangutans, gibbons, hornbills, orchids, rafflesia, forest peoples, and all other inhabitants of a typical Paradise etc., but - instead - meet kilometers of boring plantations, where of course almost nobody can live, except for "modern people", who's basic activities are working/eating/TV-watching. - Alex |
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Hi, It is true that we Europeans have already cleared much of our natural forest for agriculture. This difference is that the temperate ecosystem stores the bulk of the nutrients in the soil and so fertility can be maintained after clearance. In fact, the new stone age people who started clearing would not have continued doing so had they found that they were destroying their food source! The tropical rainforest ecosystem, on the other hand, stores most of its nutrients in the vegetation and so clearing/burning it makes no sense at all! The resulting 'soil' is virtually valueless and even the planting of grasses for grazing is often only a temporary step towards eventual desertification. The response of greedy cattle barons that 'you did it first, so you can't complain' does not, therefore, hold much water and we can stop beating our breasts over that one. We have plenty of other environmental sins to atone for! |
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Yep. Some misscall on my phone. Perhaps, one of you, guyes.. As for bamboo house for life, it is not a joke: www.healingnature.narod.ru/news/hat.html |
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Quote: Are learning, I would like to thank |
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I guess its each one of our responsibilities to be aware of the seriousness of the situation that is happening due to de-forestation and the adverse effects it is havng on our planet, it can only start by each of us making that extra effort . Start today coz you and i can make the difference . Remember it takes many bricks to build a house. So guys save your environment , save your planet. |
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First of all let me introduce myself, I'm an environmentalist that is following the subjects in this forum, and this is the first time I participate. I would like to say to all that is very noble the intentions and statements of most of you, however I personally think that you are all forgetting one of the most important aspects of deforestation, and that is biodiversity loss, all the rest is just a result of modernisation and development of societies, which Brazil as all other countries is entitled to. I don’t see anyone talk about Europe’s deforestation, there are no forests just residual evidence. I know that this post may seem offensive to some of the more strong idealistic environmentalist, however I've stopped being naive long time ago, nonetheless there is something we all can do to improve the worlds environment, and that leaves us (industrialized societies) in worst condition than countries like Brazil, that is the water quality. We have a duty to improve the quality of our polluted rivers, do not forget that earth is 71% water which also produces oxygen, do not destroy the last forest we have. The oceans Environmental Greetings Luis |
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Luis: Greetings, and welcome to the Google Earth Community Forums. Many of us are, in fact, concerned about loss of biodiversity as well as deforestation. In addition, there are numerous people who are opposed to continued degradation of the environment in the industrialized countries where they live, which is consistent with their concern about similar phenomena in countries such as Brazil that are fortunate enough to still have large areas of forested land that they could preserve. As citizens of the world, in addition to our being citizens of our own countries, we each have our own individual voices that we can, in good conscience, raise in support of responsible stewardship both locally and globally. Protection of the oceans certainly should be given high priority, but that is not a substitute for conservation of terrestrial environments. To preserve biodiversity, we need to protect both the land and the water. But, is important to note that the Google Earth Community includes over a million people representing a wide diversity of opinions regarding what problems merit attention, what the causes are, and who should be bear the responsibility for mitigating them. Good luck in your efforts to promote the protection of the rivers and the oceans. |
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The article CNN: Amazon forest destruction speeding up, officials say reports that: Quote: ![]() Nearly 300 square miles of Brazilian rainforest was destroyed in August, officials say. Various groups have differing opinions on why this occurring. Quote: Quote: Source of photograph, its caption, and quotes: CNN: Amazon forest destruction speeding up, officials say |
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Hello Luis, Welcome to this forum! I do hope you keep participating. I think what we, as a group in this thread, are all pointing out the magnitude of the work to do, damage to repair, people and governments to educate. All ecosystems are in trouble and, of course, water is a life-or-death issue. I don't recall seeing much idealism here, more like a sense of regret for the past, urgency in the present and fear of the future. Regards, Diane |
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NBC News broadcast a feature on Google Earth Outreach efforts in Brazil. Here is the video from October 11, 2008: Note that Rebecca Moore, Founder and leader of the Outreach program, is featured. Here is a little more about Ms. Moore and Outreach: |