KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 10:54 AM
InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

On the suggestion of danescombe I starting a new thread for the InternetSAR.org search effort for Ron Boychuk in British Columbia Canada. From now on, each search effort we start will have its own thread so that we don't get different search efforts mixed up. I will update this post from time to time with the best available information for the Ron Boychuk search so that we always have one point to refer back to.

Participate in the search for Ron Boychuk
If you are already a member of InternetSAR.org you can go directly to the Ron Boychuk search at: http://InternetSAR.org/searches/boychuk/index.html

If you have not yet joined InternetSAR.org and would like participate in the Ron Boychuk search effort, please go to http://InternetSAR.org/user/join.html to sign up. Once you sign up an email will be sent to the email address you provide which you will need to use to activate your account.

VERY IMPORTANT: Reporting Findings
If you have an object that you want to report for the Boychuk search, please go to: http://internetsar.org/searches/boychuk/reportobject.html (you will have to be logged in to InternetSAR.org to file any reports). Please do not file reports for objects found in InternetSAR.org imagery directly to the Boychuk search team as our reporting system has been set up to help them manage and track imagery reports and ensure that all reports are properly evaluated. We can not ensure that reported imagery will be evaluated properly if it is not reported through the InternetSAR.org reporting channel.

This reporting system will allow you to track the progress of your reports and read all feedback submitted by report evaluators and the search team.

System requirements
To participate in the InternetSAR.org search effort for Ron Boychuk you will need to have Google Earth installed on your computer and you will need a broadband Internet connection as the sheer quantity of imagery that will need to load is way too much for a slow Internet connection like dialup.

What is known for the Ron Boychuk Search
Ron Boychuk disappeared on October 23, 2007 on his way home, while he was flying alone in a Cessna 172 plane. Ron departed from Revelstoke, Canada en route to the Vancouver Island community of Qualicum, Canada and never arrived.

A complete mission briefing of everything we know about the events surrounding Ron Boychuk's disappearance can be read at: http://internetsar.org/searches/boychuk/missionbriefing.html
(please note you must be logged in to InternetSAR.org to access the report)

Ron Boychuk's plane
Ron was flying the Cessna 172 pictured below:





PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE: DO NOT CONTACT THE BOYCHUK SEARCH TEAM DIRECTLY YOURSELF
One of the big downfalls of the original MTurk search effort for Steve Fossett was the sheer volume of "white noise" created by people contacting the CAP and search teams directly themselves to report objects and ask questions. The InternetSAR.org reporting system has been designed to help search teams manage, evaluate and track reported imagery, so it is very important that all reports for InternetSAR.org imagery go through our reporting system. We do have an official point of contact with the Boychuk search team and they are able to log into InternetSAR.org and review ALL reported objects.

It is also acknowledged that good factual information will be critical for the success of our search mission. I will be using this forum to help collect questions that need to be answered and will pass them on to the Boychuk search team via our point of contact. Please ask any questions you have here rather than taking them directly to the Boychuk search team directly so that we don't overwhelm them with questions as happened with the Fossett search.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 02:52 PM
Interesting article

I just came across an interesting article at: http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=77ec86f2-c47a-4964-b52d-57b0c2be7d43

It is about how a parts shortage has been grounding Canadian Air Force Cormorant EH-101 helicopters, which are used for search and rescue missions. The article mentions the Ron Boychuk search in passing.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 03:45 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

As I mentioned in the previous thread before splitting the Ron Boychuk search off to its own thread, I will be interviewed on Vancouver BC radio station CKNW 890am at 4:40pm today Pacific Time (in just about one hour) in relation to the Boychuk search. If you want to listen in and don't live in their listening area, you can go to: http://www.cknw.com/

Thanks to a lot of PR footwork by Fishcat, we are starting to get attention to our Boychuk search effort and around 12 people have signed up on InternetSAR.org today alone (mostly from Canada).

Blue21
(Searcher)
12/26/07 04:56 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

As I mentioned in the previous thread before splitting the Ron Boychuk search off to its own thread, I will be interviewed on Vancouver BC radio station CKNW 890am at 4:40pm today Pacific Time (in just about one hour) in relation to the Boychuk search. If you want to listen in and don't live in their listening area, you can go to: http://www.cknw.com/

Thanks to a lot of PR footwork by Fishcat, we are starting to get attention to our Boychuk search effort and around 12 people have signed up on InternetSAR.org today alone (mostly from Canada).

Ken,

Good job on the interview. We should get more volunteers now.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 05:11 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Ken,
.
Good job on the interview. We should get more volunteers now.


I was really nervous during the interview. I was so thankful when he went to commercial break so that I had a chance to collect my thoughts.

I'm also thankful that I registered InternetSearchAndRescue.org as I'm sure people tried that domain as well.

We had three people sign up during the interview and two more sign up a few minutes after it was over. All told we have had around 15 people sign up today since the radio station first interviewed me earlier today. They have been really nice and are going out of their way to plug our effort to find Ron Boychuk.

rpmckinley
(Explorer)
12/26/07 05:14 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Good shot Ken, Now all we need is the right imagery.
I know - I Know,- You're working on it.

God this is frustrating.
Hopefully that interview will stirr up some more interest and get someone to caugh up some info and imagery we can use.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 05:49 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Good shot Ken, Now all we need is the right imagery.
I know - I Know,- You're working on it.


Yes we are working on it. All of our imagery is on the most probable flight path, but to the east of Salmon Arm. Ideally we will get some imagery to the west of Salmon Arm, but we have to remember that even the Salmon Arm info is rumint as supersquint would say. We can not and should not completely discount this imagery. As we should do, we will work on the best available imagery and best available information. If we get imagery to the west of the current imagery we may focus on it if the information we get from the Boychuk search team indicates that said imagery has a higher probability than our current imagery. At the same time, we will always revert back to lower probability imagery when we run out of the highest probability imagery.

It may be unlikely that he turned around, but it is not impossible. We simply don't know and we need to exhaust all possibilities in the order of probability.

Quote:

God this is frustrating.
Hopefully that interview will stirr up some more interest and get someone to caugh up some info and imagery we can use.


Rome wasn't built in a day and we really are working in uncharted waters in many respects. The more we do this the better we will get at working with search teams and the more likely it will be that we get in on the decision process for choosing what areas imagery will be captured for.

Remember to find Ron Boychuk we must find where he is not.

Blue21
(Searcher)
12/26/07 05:51 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Good shot Ken, Now all we need is the right imagery.
I know - I Know,- You're working on it.

God this is frustrating.
Hopefully that interview will stirr up some more interest and get someone to caugh up some info and imagery we can use.


We definitely are ready for the pertinent imagery, that is, west of Spense Bridge and along the possible roads and valley routes to Boychuk’s destination. Unless he fell ill, he surely flew along the most likely routes west.

RebelRob
(Tourist)
12/26/07 05:53 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

I will be interviewed on Vancouver BC radio station CKNW 980 AM at 4:40pm today Pacific Time (in just about one hour) in relation to the Boychuk search. If you want to listen in and don't live in their listening area, you can go to: http://www.cknw.com/

Thanks to a lot of PR footwork by Fishcat, we are starting to get attention to our Boychuk search effort and around 12 people have signed up on InternetSAR.org today alone (mostly from Canada).

Ken,

Good job on the interview. We should get more volunteers now.



Yes - good interview - I listened to it old-school over the airways (980 AM btw). That should provide a boost in interest to this effort.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 06:00 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I will be interviewed on Vancouver BC radio station CKNW 980 AM at 4:40pm today Pacific Time (in just about one hour) in relation to the Boychuk search. If you want to listen in and don't live in their listening area, you can go to: http://www.cknw.com/

Thanks to a lot of PR footwork by Fishcat, we are starting to get attention to our Boychuk search effort and around 12 people have signed up on InternetSAR.org today alone (mostly from Canada).

Ken,

Good job on the interview. We should get more volunteers now.



Yes - good interview - I listened to it old-school over the airways (980 AM btw). That should provide a boost in interest to this effort.



Thanks,

Yes we are getting a really good boost in new members today. They first covered the story earlier in the day which resulted in almost one dozen new members before the afternoon interview. During the Interview three more people signed up and since then another seven people have signed up as of this moment.

Blue21
(Searcher)
12/26/07 06:11 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

Good shot Ken, Now all we need is the right imagery.
I know - I Know,- You're working on it.


Yes we are working on it. All of our imagery is on the most probable flight path, but to the east of Salmon Arm. Ideally we will get some imagery to the west of Salmon Arm, but we have to remember that even the Salmon Arm info is rumint as supersquint would say. We can not and should not completely discount this imagery. As we should do, we will work on the best available imagery and best available information. If we get imagery to the west of the current imagery we may focus on it if the information we get from the Boychuk search team indicates that said imagery has a higher probability than our current imagery. At the same time, we will always revert back to lower probability imagery when we run out of the highest probability imagery.

It may be unlikely that he turned around, but it is not impossible. We simply don't know and we need to exhaust all possibilities in the order of probability.

Quote:

God this is frustrating.
Hopefully that interview will stirr up some more interest and get someone to caugh up some info and imagery we can use.


Rome wasn't built in a day and we really are working in uncharted waters in many respects. The more we do this the better we will get at working with search teams and the more likely it will be that we get in on the decision process for choosing what areas imagery will be captured for.

Remember to find Ron Boychuk we must find where he is not.

Ken,
I know that you are working on getting imagery and appreciate your aforementioned comments.

However, as an old aviator with 40 years of experience, my feeling is that if Boychuk’s last reported position was at Spense Bridge, then in all probability he continued flying west toward his destination. When a pilot reports a position like that with no other comments, it means that “I am at Spense Bridge proceeding on my original flight path and expect to complete my flight on time without incident.” If he was required to turn around due to weather or mechanical problem, there would be more evidence to that effect.

The image priority should be west of his last know position.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 06:25 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Ken,
I know that you are working on getting imagery and appreciate your aforementioned comments.
.
However, as an old aviator with 40 years of experience, my feeling is that if Boychuk’s last reported position was at Spense Bridge, then in all probability he continued flying west toward his destination. When a pilot reports a position like that with no other comments, it means that “I am at Spense Bridge proceeding on my original flight path and expect to complete my flight on time without incident.” If he was required to turn around due to weather or mechanical problem, there would be more evidence to that effect.
.
The image priority should be west of his last know position.


We will always make the highest probability imagery that we have the priority for review. Right now the imagery we are working with is the highest probability imagery we have access to. Cuddly Bear is working with our contact to see if we can get higher probability imagery to the west of Salmon Arm/Suspense Bridge. But keep in mind we must also make sure we are getting imagery based on the best info the Boychuk SAR team has not necessarily what the media is reporting. All too often media reports are wrong or inaccurate.

I have asked Fishcat to work with others to track down the best available information and to work on separating fact from rumor. We must make sure that if we do request new imagery and change our imagery priorities that this is based on known facts not rumors.

I'm so busy trying to program the stuff we need to make InternetSAR.org work that I really don't have any time to do the fact checking myself, which is why I have asked Fishcat to take the lead on this. Until this past weekend I didn't even know for sure if we were actually going to be getting imagery for the Boychuk search and I didn't start to learn what areas were covered by the imagery until I started playing with it and made it live on InternetSAR.org on the 24th.

rpmckinley
(Explorer)
12/26/07 06:30 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Blue one, You just hit on our most frustrating point. Throughtout all the time and efforts that we have put in during the searcg for Steve Fossett, and now with the search for Ron Boychuk, we have been frustrated by our inability to control our own imagery sources. Although we have been very fortunate in getting good imagery from the poeple who provide it, And we are greatful to them for providing what they have, as we build our intelegence information on things we eventually learn that we need or would like images from some different areas. So far that has been difficult or nearly impossible to obtain.
As we continue to develop this InternetSAR into a viable process it is hoped that eventually we will gain enough credability that it will become much easier to obtain the imagery we need when we need it.

But until that time comes we are at the mersy of those who contol the cameras and the satellittes, and the purse strings.

Welcome aboard.

balmerbay
(Searcher)
12/26/07 06:47 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

Ken,
I know that you are working on getting imagery and appreciate your aforementioned comments.
.
However, as an old aviator with 40 years of experience, my feeling is that if Boychuk’s last reported position was at Spense Bridge, then in all probability he continued flying west toward his destination. When a pilot reports a position like that with no other comments, it means that “I am at Spense Bridge proceeding on my original flight path and expect to complete my flight on time without incident.” If he was required to turn around due to weather or mechanical problem, there would be more evidence to that effect.
.
The image priority should be west of his last know position.


We will always make the highest probability imagery that we have the priority for review. Right now the imagery we are working with is the highest probability imagery we have access to. Cuddly Bear is working with our contact to see if we can get higher probability imagery to the west of Salmon Arm/Suspense Bridge. But keep in mind we must also make sure we are getting imagery based on the best info the Boychuk SAR team has not necessarily what the media is reporting. All too often media reports are wrong or inaccurate.

I have asked Fishcat to work with others to track down the best available information and to work on separating fact from rumor. We must make sure that if we do request new imagery and change our imagery priorities that this is based on known facts not rumors.

I'm so busy trying to program the stuff we need to make InternetSAR.org work that I really don't have any time to do the fact checking myself, which is why I have asked Fishcat to take the lead on this. Until this past weekend I didn't even know for sure if we were actually going to be getting imagery for the Boychuk search and I didn't start to learn what areas were covered by the imagery until I started playing with it and made it live on InternetSAR.org on the 24th.



If my computer holds up, I'm back looking at the new imagery. Merry Christmas to everyone...I did find this article for Fishcat to look at if he hasn't already.

Boychuk-Oct 30

Also, I think it would be nice to have some info on plane dimensions or a link to one on the internetsar.org site (For those not familiar with Cessnas). I've looked at Airliners.net for info. I'm sure there are others.

Great work and commitment Ken and to everyone else!!

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 06:58 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Blue one, You just hit on our most frustrating point. Throughtout all the time and efforts that we have put in during the searcg for Steve Fossett, and now with the search for Ron Boychuk, we have been frustrated by our inability to control our own imagery sources. Although we have been very fortunate in getting good imagery from the poeple who provide it, And we are greatful to them for providing what they have, as we build our intelegence information on things we eventually learn that we need or would like images from some different areas. So far that has been difficult or nearly impossible to obtain.
As we continue to develop this InternetSAR into a viable process it is hoped that eventually we will gain enough credability that it will become much easier to obtain the imagery we need when we need it.
.
But until that time comes we are at the mersy of those who contol the cameras and the satellittes, and the purse strings.
.
Welcome aboard.


These are very important points. Two months ago when Ron Boychuk went missing, InternetSAR.org did not exist. On December 5th when I was first contacted about helping out with the Ron Boychuk search I had only been developing InternetSAR.org for two maybe three weeks and only had the barest skeleton of a site online.

In one month InternetSAR.org has gone from being a bunch of theoretical discussions and wish lists on this forum into being a reality that is working on a real search effort. When you think about this, it is really amazing. There is a long way to go, but we have also come a long way in a very short period of time. We must also remember that we are charting a whole new territory with search and rescue. There will be bumps and setbacks along the way.

Eventually we will have a role to play in how imagery is captured and eventually we will have the credibility to get the funding we need to get better imagery, but for now we need to do the best job we can with what we have. The imagery is on Ron Boychuk's most likely fight path and it does need to be evaluated. As we get imagery for higher probability areas we will push that imagery ahead of this imagery in the assignment queue.

The best way for us to find Ron Boychuk is to work as hard as we can and do the best job we can with what we have to prove to those who control the purse strings that this is a viable means to find a down aircraft. Patience and persistence will win the day.

redlands19
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:02 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Blue one, You just hit on our most frustrating point. Throughtout all the time and efforts that we have put in during the searcg for Steve Fossett, and now with the search for Ron Boychuk, we have been frustrated by our inability to control our own imagery sources. Although we have been very fortunate in getting good imagery from the poeple who provide it, And we are greatful to them for providing what they have, as we build our intelegence information on things we eventually learn that we need or would like images from some different areas. So far that has been difficult or nearly impossible to obtain.
As we continue to develop this InternetSAR into a viable process it is hoped that eventually we will gain enough credability that it will become much easier to obtain the imagery we need when we need it.

But until that time comes we are at the mersy of those who contol the cameras and the satellittes, and the purse strings.

Welcome aboard.



Fish, cats, penguins, and another wild goose? Yup, plane could of back tracked, but prob has'nt. Hope SupSq, BP and FC manage to sort a few facts from the fiction! Not you fault Ken, you can only work with what you have! Tad irritating if plane is found to have already passed through area of images available though! Hey Ho! Will await their findings.
If its of any help sorting the wheat from the chaff.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/03/bc-search.html?ref=rss
http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/19wing/news/releases_e.asp?cat=79&id=4744
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071028/missing_plane_071028
And one on the weather at the time.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/stat...eq_statename=NA

blue_penguin
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:11 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

We need a confirmation from Revelstoke about Ron Boychuk refueling in this airport (NB: apart his (phone?) communication with his family, e.g. maybe he paid fuel by credit card and when), we must know at what time *exactly* he took off from Revelstoke (control tower report?).

I understood Ron Boychuk usually (always?) stopped at Salmon Arm for fueling and he was scheduled to stop in Salmon Arm. But... Apparently he refueled in Revelstoke which is very near. Why? Because he planned to take another route than Salmon Arm? This info *must* be clarified asap.

"Took off from Revelstoke at 2:00PM (14:00)" or "Refueled in Revelstoke at 3:05PM (15:05)" is absolutely not the same info. The apparent sunset october 23 in Vancouver/Nanaimo (possible error excepted, please someone else verify) was: 5:07PM (17:07) and if I have correctly understood, the mountains which are forwards, and the area around Vancouver international, are not exactly very pleasant at night. This info *must* be clarified, because it means a possible backtrack, even IMO a backtrack from Revelstoke to his starting point.

04:10 here, Goodnight America...

rpmckinley
(Explorer)
12/26/07 07:14 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:




Also, I think it would be nice to have some info on plane dimensions or a link to one on the internetsar.org site (For those not familiar with Cessnas). I've looked at <a href="www.airliners.net" target="_blank">Airliners.net</a> for info. I'm sure there are others.





Here is a link to some Cessna 172 specs.
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/Cessna/c172%20c175.htm

Blue21
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:16 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

Ken,
I know that you are working on getting imagery and appreciate your aforementioned comments.
.
However, as an old aviator with 40 years of experience, my feeling is that if Boychuk’s last reported position was at Spense Bridge, then in all probability he continued flying west toward his destination. When a pilot reports a position like that with no other comments, it means that “I am at Spense Bridge proceeding on my original flight path and expect to complete my flight on time without incident.” If he was required to turn around due to weather or mechanical problem, there would be more evidence to that effect.
.
The image priority should be west of his last know position.


We will always make the highest probability imagery that we have the priority for review. Right now the imagery we are working with is the highest probability imagery we have access to. Cuddly Bear is working with our contact to see if we can get higher probability imagery to the west of Salmon Arm/Suspense Bridge. But keep in mind we must also make sure we are getting imagery based on the best info the Boychuk SAR team has not necessarily what the media is reporting. All too often media reports are wrong or inaccurate.

I have asked Fishcat to work with others to track down the best available information and to work on separating fact from rumor. We must make sure that if we do request new imagery and change our imagery priorities that this is based on known facts not rumors.

I'm so busy trying to program the stuff we need to make InternetSAR.org work that I really don't have any time to do the fact checking myself, which is why I have asked Fishcat to take the lead on this. Until this past weekend I didn't even know for sure if we were actually going to be getting imagery for the Boychuk search and I didn't start to learn what areas were covered by the imagery until I started playing with it and made it live on InternetSAR.org on the 24th.

I fully concur with your perspective. It seems that the decision on were is the best place to look turns on whether or not it is factual that Boychuk made a radio transmission position report over Spense Bridge. Apparently we should work on verifying that fact. It should be a matter of record somewhere that he did indeed make a position report over Spense Bridge. If so then that is more than circumstantial evidence that he was heading west from that point.

I agree with your premise that to find Boychuk, we must find where he is not, however when my horses break down the fence and run off and I can see their tracks leading off, I can assume that they are no longer in the pasture. At that point I consider that I have found where they are not.

Ken, I am not simply being argumentative, just trying to give you input for talking points when you try to obtain the pertinent imagery.

balmerbay
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:30 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Ken,

Could you check this overlay or whoever does this? It doesn't seem to match up with the old layer.

boychuk_071129-R1C2_23808_8448


tks

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:35 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Ken, I am not simply being argumentative, just trying to give you input for talking points when you try to obtain the pertinent imagery.


I understand.

Maybe people can collect a list of news articles and sources that have discussed the where and when of different aspects of the Boychuk search and then we can collectively filter it all out. Cuddly Bear and I will try to find out what is official information from the Boychuk search team.

If Fishcat, Blue Penguin and Supersquint can agree upon what is factual information (is that possible ) then we can at least put the rumors to rest. Any new imagery we get after the current image set would most certainly include areas to the west of Salmon Arm as our current imagery comes up just short of Salmon Arm. We are hoping that the imagery already exists and that it was taken at the same time the current imagery was taken, otherwise any new imagery would be covered in snow.

balmerbay
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:41 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:




Also, I think it would be nice to have some info on plane dimensions or a link to one on the internetsar.org site (For those not familiar with Cessnas). I've looked at <a href="www.airliners.net" target="_blank">Airliners.net</a> for info. I'm sure there are others.





Here is a link to some Cessna 172 specs.
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/Cessna/c172%20c175.htm



Thanks..I'll add that one to my list

redlands19
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:42 PM
Sunset plus weather

Quote:

We need a confirmation from Revelstoke about Ron Boychuk refueling in this airport (NB: apart his (phone?) communication with his family, e.g. maybe he paid fuel by credit card and when), we must know at what time *exactly* he took off from Revelstoke (control tower report?).

I understood Ron Boychuk usually (always?) stopped at Salmon Arm for fueling and he was scheduled to stop in Salmon Arm. But... Apparently he refueled in Revelstoke which is very near. Why? Because he planned to take another route than Salmon Arm? This info *must* be clarified asap.

"Took off from Revelstoke at 2:00PM (14:00)" or "Refueled in Revelstoke at 3:05PM (15:05)" is absolutely not the same info. The apparent sunset october 23 in Vancouver/Nanaimo (possible error excepted, please someone else verify) was: 5:07PM (17:07) and if I have correctly understood, the mountains which are forwards, and the area around Vancouver international, are not exactly very pleasant at night. This info *must* be clarified, because it means a possible backtrack, even IMO a backtrack from Revelstoke to his starting point.

04:10 here, Goodnight America...



Sunset, weather etc
http://www.wunderground.com/history/stat...eq_statename=NA
Plus 3 rumint sites page 2 of forum, but guess you have already seen those.
Regards.

fishcat
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:45 PM
Re:

.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 07:56 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Ken,

Could you check this overlay or whoever does this? It doesn't seem to match up with the old layer.

boychuk_071129-R1C2_23808_8448


tks




I think you will find this image set to be much better now. Don't tell the statistical police, but I'm using some serious fudge factors to line up imagery.
We are hoping that our new method for breaking apart imagery will allow future R series image sets to line up better.

balmerbay
(Searcher)
12/26/07 08:03 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

Ken,

Could you check this overlay or whoever does this? It doesn't seem to match up with the old layer.

boychuk_071129-R1C2_23808_8448


tks




I think you will find this image set to be much better now. Don't tell the statistical police, but I'm using some serious fudge factors to line up imagery.
We are hoping that our new method for breaking apart imagery will allow future R series image sets to line up better.



Thanks!!

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 08:06 PM
Need someone to write a basic GE tutorial.

I know that there are some really good tutorials on this forum and at the GE website, but I need a really brief and straight forward tutorial for the bare basics of using Google Earth and the InternetSAR.org overlays. Is there anyone who could quickly put this together (with some screen captures)?

Just the basics like expanding the InternetSAR.org overlay folders, turning on and off layers, and zooming in and out to different eye altitudes.

I'm starting to get lots of support email and I think if I could put a page on InternetSAR.org that covered the basics, I could reduce a lot of the questions I will be getting.

I can't even begin to write this myself because I'm getting so busy. For the first time in years, my legitimate email is out pacing my spam.

redlands19
(Searcher)
12/26/07 08:19 PM
Easy to see?

No tutorial, just an example pic showing how hard it could be to make out a crashed plane, even from above.
Disregard blue colour in this image, Ron Boychuks airplane is overall tan colour, with stripes. See page 1 of this forum for pics of the actual plane that Ron Boychuk was flying. I repeat, the blue plane seen in this image is just an example of the sort of situation that small planes end up in on occasion.

1947 PA-16 in Chugiak Alaska. Occupants both survived.

no_stranger
(Master Guide)
12/26/07 09:58 PM
View in Google Earth
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Note; KMZ updated 12 JAN 2008




Media reports:,,, and kmz of relevant features within search area.

Please consider that these are media reports and not official, so until there is confirmation we are best advised to treat them as such.
_____________________________________________________________
" Boychuk departed from a Springbank, Alta., airstrip on Tuesday morning, and it is known that at 2 p.m. he refueled in Revelstoke. He was to continue on to Qualicum Beach via Salmon Arm, though he never checked in on the first leg of his journey.

Boychuk made the run routinely, and was reported missing by his son when he failed to show up at the Qualicum municipal airport at 8 p.m. His last known position was about 150 kilometres west of Salmon Arm, suggesting he may have skipped the scheduled stopover and continued on towards Vancouver Island. "

source: http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolon...f9a&k=69992
_______________________________________________________________

" 2nd Lieut. Alex Cadieux, a spokesman for the Comox 19 Wing, said "Boychuk’s last known radio transmission was from over Spence’s Bridge". "After that there was no more radio or radar contact," said Cadieux..."
_______________________________________________________________
" After leaving Alberta, Boychuk refueled in Revelstoke, B.C. He was scheduled to stop in Salmon Arm, B.C., before finishing his flight at Qualicum Bay on Vancouver Island.

When he didn't arrive his son reported him overdue on Tuesday evening. His last known position was about 150 kilometres west of Salmon Arm, suggesting that he may have skipped the scheduled stopover and continued on towards Vancouver Island. "

source; http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071028/missing_plane_071028

_____________________________________________________________

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/26/07 11:10 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ken,

Could you check this overlay or whoever does this? It doesn't seem to match up with the old layer.

boychuk_071129-R1C2_23808_8448


tks




I think you will find this image set to be much better now. Don't tell the statistical police, but I'm using some serious fudge factors to line up imagery.
We are hoping that our new method for breaking apart imagery will allow future R series image sets to line up better.



Thanks!!



Starting with image set 071129-R2C1 we are breaking DigitalGlobe image sets for the Ron Boychuk search into four sub-sets (A1, B1, A2 & B2). This is allowing me to manually adjust the coordinates of image sets on a more granular level, which should help improve the general alignment of imagery. At this point in time I have completed aligning the four parts of image set 071129-R2C1 and will begin work on the next image set tomorrow as I need to get to bed (it is 2:00am my time).

NCJIM
(First Post)
12/27/07 05:11 AM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

InternetSAR is a great accomplishment. I applaud all involved in setting up the website!!!

I read about InternetSAR in today's Avflash newsletter. I just signed up this morning. I am not very familar with Google Earth, so please excuse my ignorance. I downloaded several images for the Ron Boychuk search and all of them are very dark compared to the normal Google Earch image. Is there something I can do to lighten the search images to make it easier to distinguish details.

Here is an example


Thanks,

Jim

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/27/07 06:46 AM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

InternetSAR is a great accomplishment. I applaud all involved in setting up the website!!!


Thank you. A lot of people have helped with different aspects of this project.

Quote:

I read about InternetSAR in today's Avflash newsletter. I just signed up this morning. I am not very familar with Google Earth, so please excuse my ignorance. I downloaded several images for the Ron Boychuk search and all of them are very dark compared to the normal Google Earch image. Is there something I can do to lighten the search images to make it easier to distinguish details.


In the future we may have some ability to adjust the brightness and contrast of imagery, but right now I do not think it is within the capability of the software being used to process the imagery we are getting. The master images we work with are very different from standard graphics files and they are extremely large. Cuddly Bear, who is our imagery processing guru is using special software to crack the giant images into image sets consisting of small image tiles.

Eventually, we may end up writing our own image processing software and can look at adding this in as a capability (there just aren't many programs that can handle 2gb+ image files).

supersquint
(Searcher)
12/27/07 07:27 AM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

I am still building the imagery tutorial site. If anyone has any content they would like to contribute please send me a pm.

As of right now the site consists of the following sections:

About
History of Imagery Analysis
Imagery Analysis
Basics of Imagery Analysis
Map Reading 101
Satellites and Sensors
InternetSAR.org
Tests
Terminology

Tentative sections:
Terrain and Vegetation Analysis

If you believe I am missing anything of importance please let me know, and
if you want to contribute to any of these sections please contact me via pm.

rpmckinley
(Explorer)
12/27/07 07:36 AM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Adjusting your screen to compensate for black or extremely dark inages.
I had this same problem when I started working in GE.
The problem is in the graphics controller on your individual computers and monitors.
I have a GE-Force2 MX 100/200 by NVidia. I am running Microsoft Windows XP-Pro. The graphics card drivers were installed automatically when I installed the MS-XP-Pro. MS simply used the "best-guess" default drivers when the installation was done.

To fix the problem I had to download new drivers for my graphics card so that the Brightness, Contrast, and GaMa settings could be adjusted.
If you are running Microsoft Windows operating system look in the control panel and find your graphics card. Try to find out if there are any brightness and gama controls. If the drivers do not present any controls you may have to download new drivers for your card.

Other operating systems like Linux or Apple should have the same capabilities but I can not guide you to these settings.

One disadvantage with the GE overlays is that in order to see the imagery my graphics settings are set so high that the rest of my screen apears nearly pure white and extremely bright. (Blinding, but it works).

Unfortunately as Ken says right now there is no way for InternetSAR programmers to manipulate the images or adjust the contrast.

I hope this helps.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/27/07 07:45 AM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Unfortunately as Ken says right now there is no way for InternetSAR programmers to manipulate the images or adjust the contrast.


At this moment, this programmer can't even get caught up on his email.

In the past 24 hours we have gone from 40 members on InternetSAR.org to over 200 members with a new member signing up almost every minute.

If anyone gets ANY error message from my server (e.g. it doesn't respond correctly), please let me know immediately via this forum or PM. This is our first real load test of InternetSAR.org and I do not know how it is going to respond. Let's hope it weathers the storm.

Blue21
(Searcher)
12/27/07 09:50 AM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Media reports:,,, and kmz of relevant features within search area.

Please consider that these are media reports and not official, so until there is confirmation we are best advised to treat them as such.
_____________________________________________________________
" Boychuk departed from a Springbank, Alta., airstrip on Tuesday morning, and it is known that at 2 p.m. he refueled in Revelstoke. He was to continue on to Qualicum Beach via Salmon Arm, though he never checked in on the first leg of his journey.

Boychuk made the run routinely, and was reported missing by his son when he failed to show up at the Qualicum municipal airport at 8 p.m. His last known position was about 150 kilometres west of Salmon Arm, suggesting he may have skipped the scheduled stopover and continued on towards Vancouver Island. "

source: http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolon...f9a&k=69992
_______________________________________________________________

" 2nd Lieut. Alex Cadieux, a spokesman for the Comox 19 Wing, said "Boychuk’s last known radio transmission was from over Spence’s Bridge". "After that there was no more radio or radar contact," said Cadieux..."
_______________________________________________________________
" After leaving Alberta, Boychuk refueled in Revelstoke, B.C. He was scheduled to stop in Salmon Arm, B.C., before finishing his flight at Qualicum Bay on Vancouver Island.

When he didn't arrive his son reported him overdue on Tuesday evening. His last known position was about 150 kilometres west of Salmon Arm, suggesting that he may have skipped the scheduled stopover and continued on towards Vancouver Island. "

source; http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071028/missing_plane_071028

_____________________________________________________________

Based on this information that has been reported and subject to further verification, Boychuk departed Revelstoke at 2 pm and the last radio transmission received from him was his position report over Spense Bridge. The distance from Revelstoke to Spense Bridge measures 148 statute miles on a magnetic heading of 250 degrees.

At an estimated ground speed of 110 mph, Boychuk was over Spense Bridge 1 hour and 25 minutes later or at 3:25 pm. (The time of the position report should be on record) From that point the straight line distance to Boychuk’s final destination is 154 statute miles on a magnetic heading of about 240 degrees.

At an estimated ground speed of 110 mph his arrival time at destination would be about 5 pm. However, it is unlikely he would fly that leg in a straight line because of the terrain. Following roads or valleys would have extended his estimated arrival time somewhat.

Based on these assumptions a viable search pattern would begin at Spense Bridge on an azimuth of about 235 degrees for 160 statute miles and an azimuth of 360 degrees for 160 statute miles. Within this fan, the most severe terrain is in the first 60 miles and the most unfriendly area to go down in. Within the fan of the first 60 miles, the most likely flight routes should be identified and searched thoroughly. In my opinion this is the area we should look at if the imagery is available.

Of course I have only looked at this for two days and the discovery of additional facts could change this theory.

Meanwhile, the imagery that has thus far been posted should be examined. I have been looking at those areas last night and this morning and see nothing to report. I suppose that searching this area is based on a premise that Boychuk turned his 172 about for some reason and was trying to return to Revelstoke.

LJeanL
(Searcher)
12/27/07 09:57 AM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Wow! I took a couple days off (really sick with a stomach thing/fever ) and I come back and all kinds of things are happening! Ken is doing interviews and radio shows for the Boychuk search. Obviously, I missed the live version, but is the radio show archived, or at least a transcript available?

And now I'm confused with the split between the Fossett and Boychuk threads. Mixing them wouldn't have been that bad, we could have prefaced the subject header with either Fossett or Boychuk or generic, because we talk about things that might pertain to both searches or just searches in general. Where so we post about generic InternetSAR.org stuff. Is anyone still going to be posting to and reading the Fossett thread anymore? I'm so confused. <dizzy and nursing some ginger ale and dry toast>

Also, I probably missed this, but do we have direct communication with the head of the Boychuk search team yet? If so, can we assume they have the most accurate information available?

Ken, I got your PM about doing the copywriting for the history and tutorial for the site but it looks like supersquint is still planning to do the tutorial part.

Last but not least, that's really great about the increase in membership.

LJeanL
(Searcher)
12/27/07 10:02 AM
Re: Easy to see?

Quote:

No tutorial, just an example pic showing how hard it could be to make out a crashed plane, even from above.
Disregard blue colour in this image, Ron Boychuks airplane is overall tan colour, with stripes. See page 1 of this forum for pics of the actual plane that Ron Boychuk was flying. I repeat, the blue plane seen in this image is just an example of the sort of situation that small planes end up in on occasion.

1947 PA-16 in Chugiak Alaska. Occupants both survived.



I had originally wanted to do an image tutorial of things like this that were posted to the forum to put on InternetSAR.org, but I guess it's not as easy as I thought because of copyright issues.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/27/07 10:41 AM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Wow! I took a couple days off (really sick with a stomach thing/fever ) and I come back and all kinds of things are happening! Ken is doing interviews and radio shows for the Boychuk search. Obviously, I missed the live version, but is the radio show archived, or at least a transcript available?

And now I'm confused with the split between the Fossett and Boychuk threads. Mixing them wouldn't have been that bad, we could have prefaced the subject header with either Fossett or Boychuk or generic, because we talk about things that might pertain to both searches or just searches in general. Where so we post about generic InternetSAR.org stuff. Is anyone still going to be posting to and reading the Fossett thread anymore? I'm so confused. <dizzy and nursing some ginger ale and dry toast>

Also, I probably missed this, but do we have direct communication with the head of the Boychuk search team yet? If so, can we assume they have the most accurate information available?

Ken, I got your PM about doing the copywriting for the history and tutorial for the site but it looks like supersquint is still planning to do the tutorial part.

Last but not least, that's really great about the increase in membership.



That will teach you to get sick and take time off.

First, the Fossett thread should be used for Fossett discussions and the Boychuk thread should be used for Boychuk discussions. The reason for splitting them off was to make life easier for new members who were joining to participate in the Boychuk search.

I am personally keeping a browser tab open to both threads and periodically refreshing them. I had to turn off the email notifications for new thread posts as my email was becoming almost unusable with all the email I'm suddenly getting.

We do have an official contact channel with the Boychuk team who is supplying us with imagery. We are working on getting more imagery as we would like to see more imagery to the west and at our current rate we will run out of imagery for the Boychuk search by early to the middle of next week. One problem will be is that if there isn't more imagery that had been taken at the same time the current imagery was taken, we will have to wait until spring for new imagery because they are buried under lots of snow and any crash site would also be buried.

If we run out of imagery for the Boychuk search, my suggestion would be for people to continue to work on our Fossett imagery. Hopefully we will get new imagery for one of these two searches before we totally run out of imagery.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/27/07 10:47 AM
INFO UPDATE: Straight from Boychuk search team

The following information was provided to me by my contact at the Boychuk search team:

Quote:

I have not heard about additional images yet. I will keep trying to
get them, though.
.
You are right in that some news stories put Ron further west. However,
the area we are searching is one of the five search areas Ron's family
want to focus on. The other four areas are located west of this one.
.
Thank you very much!
balmerbay
(Searcher)
12/27/07 11:04 AM
Luck in Denver

This person was one lucky dog!

No Prop

fishcat
(Searcher)
12/27/07 11:31 AM
Re:

.

supersquint
(Searcher)
12/27/07 12:08 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Obviously, I missed the live version, but is the radio show archived, or at least a transcript available?



If you go to the radios website and sign up you can go into their archives section and listen to the interview. You query by day and time slot for the interview. He was on the 26th at the 4pm slot. On my windows media player he came on around 35 minutes into th hour.

Quote:


Ken, I got your PM about doing the copywriting for the history and tutorial for the site but it looks like supersquint is still planning to do the tutorial part.



I'm looking for help writing components of the site. Please let me know if you are interested. The main part i'm focusing on right now is the tutorial and testing. While I can cover the test and basic,intermediate, and advanced components of imagery analysis I would like help with other components such as vegetation analysis (blue penguin's specialty).

There is also a section of the site devoted to internetsar.org if someone wants to write a few paragraphs for that unless Ken wants to write that himself.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/27/07 12:59 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:


There is also a section of the site devoted to internetsar.org if someone wants to write a few paragraphs for that unless Ken wants to write that himself.


Ya, like I have time for that.

What I was looking for wasn't so much a full blow IA tutorial so much as more of a Google Earth tutorial with screen captures helping people understand the basics. Kind of in between a full fledged IA manual and our current "getting started" I need stuff that can be directly on InternetSAR.org so that it can be part of my menuing system and people don't get lost by ending up on another site. The questions I'm getting are things like "how do I zoom in", "why are the images so dark", "how to turn on and off overlays", etc. Eventually having some pages directly on InternetSAR.org showing crash sites and giving basic IA instruction will also be important, but we have so much to work on right now that we have to prioritize.

supersquint
(Searcher)
12/27/07 01:13 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:


There is also a section of the site devoted to internetsar.org if someone wants to write a few paragraphs for that unless Ken wants to write that himself.


Ya, like I have time for that.

What I was looking for wasn't so much a full blow IA tutorial so much as more of a Google Earth tutorial with screen captures helping people understand the basics. Kind of in between a full fledged IA manual and our current "getting started" I need stuff that can be directly on InternetSAR.org so that it can be part of my menuing system and people don't get lost by ending up on another site. The questions I'm getting are things like "how do I zoom in", "why are the images so dark", "how to turn on and off overlays", etc. Eventually having some pages directly on InternetSAR.org showing crash sites and giving basic IA instruction will also be important, but we have so much to work on right now that we have to prioritize.



Ah, ok. I'm unsure what everyone else is tasked to do at the moment so I assumed that we were talking about the other tutorial stuff.

redlands19
(Searcher)
12/27/07 01:29 PM
locations

Simple overview showing location of areas we keep hearing about.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/27/07 01:32 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Ah, ok. I'm unsure what everyone else is tasked to do at the moment so I assumed that we were talking about the other tutorial stuff.



I think this is the nature of the way this week is going to go. I feel like I've been caught in blizzard with only a hand trowel to dig out with. We now have over 330 users compared to only 40 yesterday morning.

Things are starting to quiet down as I get glitches ironed out. The stupid security code is still giving me some problems but it is getting better. It seems some browsers are ignoring my instructions to not cache the image.


What we need is for everyone to pipe in and list what they are working on so that we can organize ourselves a little better. We need to pick off the lowest hanging fruit first and then start working on deeper stuff.

Tasks at hand:

For the Boychuk search effort wen need to organize our intel so that I can update the main post of this thread.

For InternetSAR.org we need to prioritize the writing assignments.

My short run tasks are:
1) finish tuning the placement of current overlays for the Boychuk search.

2) program in side menu flags so that report evaluators know how many reports are waiting to be evaluated for each search effort.

3) program in email alerts for senior evaluators and search teams so that they know when reports make it to their levels.

4) finish my boundary generator so that people can see what area is covered by each image set.

5) program in flexibility for changing image set assignment order. Currently image sets are assigned on a first in first out basis. I need the flexibility to change the order image sets are assigned based on our best intel. I also need the ability to reassign image sets that need multiple passes (like most of the Boychuk imagery).

6) develop back end admin tools for importing image set data and adjusting image set layout. Currently I have to do this all manually via MySQL query browser, which means I can't hand off any of these tasks to others in the event of my absence.

I figure that this is a good two to three weeks of programming.

--edit--
After though:

One thing we need is a page written that is targeted towards search teams with active searches underway that invites them to make use of our services. It needs to emphasize that our services are at little to no cost (possibly web hosting fees but I'm trying to avoid this) and that we can work with them to acquire aerial imagery from third party sources. It needs to be clear that while our services come at little or no cost that our services do not include the imagery acquisition, which is handled by third parties. It also needs to emphasize that it is best if we are brought in before the imagery is acquired so that we can ensure the best possible imagery quality and locations.

vanaj
(Searcher)
12/27/07 03:48 PM
Re: Luck in Denver

Quote:

This person was one lucky dog!

No Prop



A real good reason more than one engine is best...and really important at night, in weather or over mountains...

vanaj
(Searcher)
12/27/07 03:55 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

While I can cover the test and basic,intermediate, and advanced components of imagery analysis I would like help with other components such as vegetation analysis (blue penguin's specialty).



Heck, I can't tell the difference between a Plane and a blue tarp...

But I do know what a yellow CAT looks like...

balmerbay
(Searcher)
12/27/07 04:38 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

While I can cover the test and basic,intermediate, and advanced components of imagery analysis I would like help with other components such as vegetation analysis (blue penguin's specialty).



Heck, I can't tell the difference between a Plane and a blue tarp...

But I do know what a yellow CAT looks like...



My vote is you fly up to some of these places anyways and send back some pictures... It seems a lot prettier than the Sagebrush.

KenBarbalace
(Searcher)
12/27/07 05:03 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

While I can cover the test and basic,intermediate, and advanced components of imagery analysis I would like help with other components such as vegetation analysis (blue penguin's specialty).



Heck, I can't tell the difference between a Plane and a blue tarp...

But I do know what a yellow CAT looks like...



My vote is you fly up to some of these places anyways and send back some pictures... It seems a lot prettier than the Sagebrush.



Absolutely! Just remember that we have no budget and everyone has to do their part of this on their own dime so don't bother submitting an expense report.

vanaj
(Searcher)
12/27/07 05:27 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

While I can cover the test and basic,intermediate, and advanced components of imagery analysis I would like help with other components such as vegetation analysis (blue penguin's specialty).



Heck, I can't tell the difference between a Plane and a blue tarp...

But I do know what a yellow CAT looks like...



My vote is you fly up to some of these places anyways and send back some pictures... It seems a lot prettier than the Sagebrush.



Absolutely! Just remember that we have no budget and everyone has to do their part of this on their own dime so don't bother submitting an expense report.



Trust me if I had the disposable income I would have a plane with a camera system that would make Mr Hubble blush...

rpmckinley
(Explorer)
12/27/07 05:42 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:


Absolutely! Just remember that we have no budget and everyone has to do their part of this on their own dime so don't bother submitting an expense report.



There you go - getting cheep again.

Quote:


Trust me if I had the disposable income I would have a plane with a camera system that would make Mr Hubble blush...



Ya - You and me both brother.
Where the heck is Richard Branson when we need him?

Hey, What about getting him to outfit some of his airliners with cameras so that when they fly over these areas they can perform double duty. Fly passengers and packages plus take aerial photos at the same time.

Cool idea I think. Anybody got his phone number?

MedicPilot
(Tourist)
12/27/07 05:51 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Hello,

My name is Greg, and although I do not claim to be an expert in this area, I am a commercial pilot. I also have some overhead imagery interepretation experience from the Navy, although that was several years ago.

I am most interested in the information that has been gathered so far. I have read that the pilot made a position report over Salmon Arm. Do we know this for sure? Does this information come from NavCanada? Or was this reported by news media or overheard by others. I've found that anything reported by the news media, especially when it pertains to aircraft and aviation, is full of errors.

I agree with one of the other posts that there is no evidence to suggest that the pilot may have crashed near Salmon Arm. As pointed out earlier, the pilot did not make any mention of problems, which he most certainly would have if there were issues at that time. Also, by the time a pilot actually makes a position report, they can be miles from that location. This is of course contingent upon whether he actually made that report (ie verification from Nav Canada).

Did the pilot file a flight plan?

The imagery that we are getting to overlay, was that shot just after the accident? If not, there's a good chance that any wreckage will be covered by snow if the imagery is more recent.

Do we have a record of the weather observations at the time of the accident? If the weather was low with clouds and precipitation, the pilot may have been hugging close to the terrain to stay in the clear. If it was getting dark, those ridge lines and mountains are near impossible to see and avoid, even for an experienced aviator who is familiar with the route.

Well, those are just a couple of thoughts I have. I'm assuming that this is a recovery effort (i.e. we're not looking for a live person anymore), correct?

Clear skies.

Greg

LJeanL
(Searcher)
12/27/07 05:54 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

What we need is for everyone to pipe in and list what they are working on so that we can organize ourselves a little better. We need to pick off the lowest hanging fruit first and then start working on deeper stuff.





Here's what I'm doing: I am reading through the first part of the Fossett thread to get info for a "History" page. I don't know how detailed this should be. I guess we can always add to it later. I am also collecting questions for a FAQ page, links for a "Links" page, and crash site pictures. I'm not sure if supersquint was volunteering to do the "how to use overlays in Google Earth tutorial" or not, but if she doesn't have time, I'll try to do it. Let me know.

CAPPILOT
(First Post)
12/27/07 06:05 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

It would seem that if Ron had given a position report at the bridge ,that if he deviated off coarse or turned around he would have also reported that .Looking at his direct coarse there are 4 high ridges just ahead of his track and Vancouver class B airspace just above,so if he didn't want to contact ATC I would agree he took the lower valley route,could have turned up the wrong canyon? I've not seen in the forum where it says if he had a GPS aboard ,or was instrument rated? One last question, when transitioning the last 20 miles over the water to CAT4 (Qualicum Beach muni) do pilots usually go around the restricted air space (CYR107) to the north or stay below 1000 ft to avoid it .Enough questions I'll get back looking at G Earth

vanaj
(Searcher)
12/27/07 06:38 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Quote:

Hello,

My name is Greg, and although I do not claim to be an expert in this area, I am a commercial pilot. I also have some overhead imagery interepretation experience from the Navy, although that was several years ago.

I am most interested in the information that has been gathered so far. I have read that the pilot made a position report over Salmon Arm. Do we know this for sure? Does this information come from NavCanada? Or was this reported by news media or overheard by others. I've found that anything reported by the news media, especially when it pertains to aircraft and aviation, is full of errors.

I agree with one of the other posts that there is no evidence to suggest that the pilot may have crashed near Salmon Arm. As pointed out earlier, the pilot did not make any mention of problems, which he most certainly would have if there were issues at that time. Also, by the time a pilot actually makes a position report, they can be miles from that location. This is of course contingent upon whether he actually made that report (ie verification from Nav Canada).

Did the pilot file a flight plan?

The imagery that we are getting to overlay, was that shot just after the accident? If not, there's a good chance that any wreckage will be covered by snow if the imagery is more recent.

Do we have a record of the weather observations at the time of the accident? If the weather was low with clouds and precipitation, the pilot may have been hugging close to the terrain to stay in the clear. If it was getting dark, those ridge lines and mountains are near impossible to see and avoid, even for an experienced aviator who is familiar with the route.

Well, those are just a couple of thoughts I have. I'm assuming that this is a recovery effort (i.e. we're not looking for a live person anymore), correct?

Clear skies.

Greg



Welcome aboard Greg....

I do believe the position report was from a Lt in the SAR team....

" 2nd Lieut. Alex Cadieux, a spokesman for the Comox 19 Wing, said "Boychuk’s last known radio transmission was from over Spence’s Bridge". "After that there was no more radio or radar contact," said Cadieux..."

As to when the Images were taken by SAT I'm not sure..I think Ken or CB have that answer...

As to the flight plan...I thought Canada was like Mexico and flight plans were required on all flights..VFR or not..maybe we have a CA pilot out there that can answer this for us...there were also reports of NORAD tracking targets in that same area but like Fossett, they could not do a positive ID on the aircraft...

So we look and look more...

redlands19
(Searcher)
12/27/07 07:20 PM
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk

Recurring issues in rumint, (media).
Last radio contact seems to be trusted, although is variously reported as either at Spences bridge, or south of Spences bridge.
Search teams appear to have focused on areas west of Lytton, including Fraser canyon, Logan lake, wooded areas near Kamloops.

Have a few questions in addition.
Fuel on board at take of from Springbank?
Any history of airplane instrument malfunctions?
Fuel loaded at Revelstoke? witnesses to this? arrival and departure time? Disscrepancy (error) between times stated as 2pm and 3.05pm.
Poss 2pm arr, 3.05 dep after refuel?
Any contact, phone calls etc while at Revelstoke?
Salmon Arm was definately 100% missed out?
Any radar or radio reports at any time? Other than 'last radio contact' near to Spences bridge?
Previously posted, GPS in plane?

fishcat
(Searcher)
12/27/07 07:22 PM
re:

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