redlands19
Searcher
Reged: 09/09/07
Posts: 553
Loc: Devon UK
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Remember our mission is <snip snip>
About time you dusted off those boots and put them to use.
Getting more mellow in my years...
Jeans are the 'right shade' of blue though.
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rpmckinley
Explorer
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 187
Loc: Texas, USA
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 For the new folks just joining InternetSAR.org. Folks please remember if you see an object that appears to be of interest be sure to check the old imagery before you file a report on the object. Go to the Temporary Places bar on the left side bar menu of GE. Uncheck the current overlay that you are working on. It may help to click the overlay on and off a few times.
And don't expect that the overlay will line up exactly with the old imagery. Look for something that will absolutely show up, like a small clearing, or a big rock ledge or a small body of water, or a road.
Try to judge how far off the overlay is in comparision to the old base Googe Earth imagery. Keep you eyes on the object you are interested in and click off the overlay, off and on several times. See if you can judge where it would be if it did appear on the old imagery.
If it does appear and is clearly visable on the old imagery, it is NOT what we are looking for.
The old basic GE imagery photos were taken several years ago in some cases. The new overlays that we are reviewing for the Fossett and Boychuk searches was taken AFTER these men went missing. There is no way these airplanes could appear on the old imagery. So if you see it there, don't bother to report it.
I hope this helps.
Thanks and welcome aboad.
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vanaj
Searcher
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1719
Loc: Reno, NV
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Remember our mission is <snip snip>
About time you dusted off those boots and put them to use.
Getting more mellow in my years...
Jeans are the 'right shade' of blue though.
I took my tarp with me so I could match up the shade of blue...
Did anyone happen to find the blue tarp in the logo of InternetSAR.org ???
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"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."...Calvin Coolidge 30th President of the USA.
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KenBarbalace
Searcher
Reged: 09/27/07
Posts: 609
Loc: Portland Maine
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OK...these are the same SAR team members that reported Ron had radioed a position report(A position report that was most likely ON TAPE) south of the Bridge....some ~150 miles to the west of were THEY/US are searching ??? something is really starting to sound very familiar and starting to stink...either we're or the media is getting a load of "Bravo Sierra"
Easy my friend.
Even within an organization there can be bad information, misstatements and unconfirmed information. This isn't intentional mushroom treatment so much as raw information being released before being confirmed. I frequently saw this type of thing when I was a volunteer firefighter. It can also be why you end up with multiple search areas like we have with the Boychuk search.
Everything we hear in the media is rumint even if it quotes an official source. Most stories reported in the media have some factual errors.
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InternerSAR.org was started as a way people could view images and report possible site and get valuable feedback...without this people feel like mushrooms and will leave the effort...well at this point I think with all the rumors maybe someone from the SAR team should step in here and fill us with facts...after all what do they have to loose...there was probably 10 times the area covered online that in the air by searchers in the Fossett search...I'll bet the SAR team looking for Ron would like that help also..and we ask so little in return....just give us the facts...it's not like the area has to be secured because Ron is the Prime Minister of Canada...
Patience my friend. We're new at this and there will be times when things don't go smoothly, especially with information flow.
Our search effort for Ron Boychuk is officially three days old and we started over the biggest holiday of the year. Everyone needs to be cut a lot of slack on the information department.
Allow us the time to build up contacts, procedures and liaisons so that we can ensure a better flow of information from search teams. Yes it would be nice to have a really good flow of information, but it isn't mission critical to perform our part of the search effort. Maybe for this search we won't get all the information we would like, but as we do more of these and prove our systems work the flow of information will get better.
At least we have a fully established feedback and report management system so that individuals can be kept informed of the progress of their reports and it was the lack of feedback on reports that was the primary grievance on the feedback department.
We won't win friends and build allies by spiting venom. We must have patience and prove ourselves out.
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InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA
My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later
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KenBarbalace
Searcher
Reged: 09/27/07
Posts: 609
Loc: Portland Maine
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Did anyone happen to find the blue tarp in the logo of InternetSAR.org ???
I've seen no one mention it yet.
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InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA
My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later
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balmerbay
Searcher
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 287
Loc: Chesapeake Bay
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Did anyone happen to find the blue tarp in the logo of InternetSAR.org ???
I've seen no one mention it yet.
I need an updated overlay to find it, if it's suppose to be on your website.
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Blue21
Searcher
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 117
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Remember our mission is not to replace SAR teams. Our mission is to assist them. This means we need to trust the decisions they make and provide them with the assistance they ask for without second guessing them to death as is happening in this thread.
If you were in the position of Ron Boychuk's family, who would you want to make the decisions about where to search: the trained SAR team you are working with or a bunch of people on some forum you don't know?
OK...these are the same SAR team members that reported Ron had radioed a position report(A position report that was most likely ON TAPE) south of the Bridge....some ~150 miles to the west of were THEY/US are searching ??? something is really starting to sound very familiar and starting to stink...either we're or the media is getting a load of "Bravo Sierra"
InternerSAR.org was started as a way people could view images and report possible site and get valuable feedback...without this people feel like mushrooms and will leave the effort...well at this point I think with all the rumors maybe someone from the SAR team should step in here and fill us with facts...after all what do they have to loose...there was probably 10 times the area covered online that in the air by searchers in the Fossett search...I'll bet the SAR team looking for Ron would like that help also..and we ask so little in return....just give us the facts...it's not like the area has to be secured because Ron is the Prime Minister of Canada...
Good Evening Gentlemen, I have not been on this board for 24 hours because of my work schedule and have been trying to catch up for the last hour or so. I gather that for a good many of you, with the exception of my colleagues Greg and Vanji, the consensus is that Boychuk and his 172 never made it beyond 50 miles from his departure at Revelstoke, therefore, the area just to the west of there is were we should look because no doubt that is where he is.
I simply cannot buy that bill of goods. The arguments given in the previous posts for that premise are just not convincing to me. Of course we should examine the imagery as posted with as mush enthusiasm and expertise as possible. Until someone or something disproves the stated fact that the last know position of Boychuk was over Spense Bridge, I cannot accept any other theory other than he proceeded on in a westerly direction toward his destination until he ran into misfortune.
I cannot accept the premise that we should simply be a “bunch of armchairs” and act like mushrooms and just look at the imagery provided to us and stop all of the useless chatter and “second guessing” on this forum. I have been flying for a long time and a day never passes when I don’t learn something new about flying. The day I stop listening and learning is the day I will end up in the ravine. I feel that I have a duty to express my opinion based on my experience.
Until it is proven otherwise, I think that the facts are that Boychuk departed Revelstoke at 2pm and flew westerly and made a position report over Spense Bridge. That then is his last known position and is where SAR begins. I can see no evidence that Boychuk did not follow Canadian Aviation Regulation and did not file a VFR flight plan. After all, making a position report over Spense Bridge is in keeping with flight following procedures and indicates that Boychuk was predisposed to following regs and sound flight procedures.
Perhaps someone can track down his fight plan and a transcript of the position report.
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vanaj
Searcher
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1719
Loc: Reno, NV
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Everything we hear in the media is rumint even if it quotes an official source. Most stories reported in the media have some factual errors.
When an SAR Officer (PR type) is talking to the media and makes the statement that Ron made a position report over Spence's Bridge..I don't think even the Enquirer could mess that up...
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Our search effort for Ron Boychuk is officially three days old and we started over the biggest holiday of the year. Everyone needs to be cut a lot of slack on the information department.
There are no holidays in Aviation and especially NOT in SAR...it's a 24/7/365 job...
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Maybe for this search we won't get all the information we would like, but as we do more of these and prove our systems work the flow of information will get better.
Well maybe one of the conditions of InternetSAR.org should be a PR type form SAR takes an active roll in this forum...
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At least we have a fully established feedback and report management system so that individuals can be kept informed of the progress of their reports and it was the lack of feedback on reports that was the primary grievance on the feedback department.
This is fine for our site...but we are asking people to dedicate/volunteer their time looking over images provided to us and many are Aviation type of people and they usually want facts as to how this became the primary search area. This is a 2 way street...they want our time we want information and feedback...sounds like they are getting the better end of this deal, we give them hundreds of hours a day and they give us one or two..now even Trump would jump on that deal...
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We won't win friends and build allies by spiting venom. We must have patience and prove ourselves out.
Not spitting venom...yet...but feedback from an "Official" type in this forum would go a long way in showing appreciation for the efforts...and to prove ourselves we should be given the proper tools...and in todays world information is King...so give us the tools.
I'll just bet that I'm not the only one here (or the ones that left SF search for the same reason) thinking all this, I just happen to be the old guy that is willing to say it here...and yes after 1432 miles and hundreds and hundreds of hours online with over 1100 post and 700+ PM's I think I have the right to make the above statements.
To quote Dennis Miller.. "Of course this is just my opinion and I could be wrong"
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"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."...Calvin Coolidge 30th President of the USA.
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fishcat
Searcher
Reged: 10/04/07
Posts: 176
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rpmckinley
Explorer
Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 187
Loc: Texas, USA
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Post Removed
In any group activity- emotions can sometimes run high.
Remember that many more people read your comments that actually participate in this discussion.
If you feel your blood rising?--- Do the following:-
1) Take a deep breath. Never post in anger--Give yourself a 'Time Out' to consider your thoughts.
2) IF--After your 'Time Out' you feel that you still wish to reply to a comment? Keep it civil, polite and too the point. Personal abuse & flames are not part of GEC. Any such posts will be removed.
3) If you feel a member is in breach of the GEC code of conduct?. PM a moderator with a link. We will act.
You are collectively doing something very noble in trying to locate Ron Boychuk's plane.
Stay calm, stay focused and keep up the good work.
danescombe
GEC Moderator
Edited by danescombe (12/29/07 12:21 AM)
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