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All things considered, Blue Penguin is a righteous dude

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Agreed!

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InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA

My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later

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Ken,
As a 30 year pilot and trained search co-ordinator with Casara and having participated in many real searches I have to throw in my 2 cents worth before this very worthwhile endeavor of yours gets too big to handle and please try to understand where I'm coming from with my comments but been there, done that !

We need facts to work with, if we don't have them, then get them, JRCC will have them for sure.

People have to realize this is real world stuff we are doing and not just someones excuse to chit chat about aviation stuff as our goal is to return someones loved ones to them even if they broke every damm air reg thats out there they are still missing.

Many search objects are found outside the search area so sometimes we have to think outside the box if you know what I mean.

We must really be prudent when searching as the smallest clue can open the biggest door and thats what this is all about.

Thanks and keep up the good work..........AL

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Al, I think you are the first person that is associated with CASARA that has posted. Welcome, glad you are here!

I. What is JRCC and how does CASARA handle search details? Would information be considered public and freely provided or would it just be provided as a courtesy and at the discretion of the organization? Maybe you could enlighten us on the character of CASARA and its people.

There is a lot of fear here that lots of people will swamp the search teams with requests and ruin any possible relations InternetSAR might need in the future. This comes from the experience with the Fossett search where the U.S. Civil Air Patrol WAS swamped with requests because of the high level of publicity. This was exacerbated by the CAP spokesperson who lacked some public relations skills. The Boychuk search has no where near the high profile of the Fossett search and some of these fears may be exaggerated but are still a concern.

If you have contacts at CASARA or suggestions on how to communicate our need for facts, may be you could send a Private Message to Vanaj. I think he volunteered to take the lead on this.


II. Although I am not a pilot, but I have concluded that pilots approach the whole search thing from a different perspective. Pilots want to have a "reasonable expectation" that the area they search is a likely area where their fellow pilot has disappeared. Hashing out all the known facts of the lost pilots flight is a very productive enterprise that helps the pilot searchers get that "reasonable expectation" that motivates them to search. This is why I think it is imperative that a direct contact is made CASARA to get the facts. Otherwise what motivates this very skilled group of searchers will not be there and they will not participate.

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Jim, that is a good assessment. I agree.

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I cannot accept the premise that we should simply be a “bunch of armchairs” and act like mushrooms and just look at the imagery provided to us and stop all of the useless chatter and “second guessing” on this forum.

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I don't think Blue Penguin knew the connations of "a bunch of armchairs". He has stated in the past that French is his native language and that he uses some kind of translation software for English. May be he should get a pass on that comment because of his inability to understand the full ramifications of his idiom. All things considered, Blue Penguin is a righteous dude

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OK by me that he gets a pass. I really have trouble making sense out of whatever he is attempting to say.

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Jim, that is a good assessment. I agree.

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Ken,
As a 30 year pilot and trained search co-ordinator with Casara and having participated in many real searches I have to throw in my 2 cents worth before this very worthwhile endeavor of yours gets too big to handle and please try to understand where I'm coming from with my comments but been there, done that !

We need facts to work with, if we don't have them, then get them, JRCC will have them for sure.

People have to realize this is real world stuff we are doing and not just someones excuse to chit chat about aviation stuff as our goal is to return someones loved ones to them even if they broke every damm air reg thats out there they are still missing.

Many search objects are found outside the search area so sometimes we have to think outside the box if you know what I mean.

We must really be prudent when searching as the smallest clue can open the biggest door and thats what this is all about.

Thanks and keep up the good work..........AL

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Al, I think you are the first person that is associated with CASARA that has posted. Welcome, glad you are here!

I. What is JRCC and how does CASARA handle search details? Would information be considered public and freely provided or would it just be provided as a courtesy and at the discretion of the organization? Maybe you could enlighten us on the character of CASARA and its people.

There is a lot of fear here that lots of people will swamp the search teams with requests and ruin any possible relations InternetSAR might need in the future. This comes from the experience with the Fossett search where the U.S. Civil Air Patrol WAS swamped with requests because of the high level of publicity. This was exacerbated by the CAP spokesperson who lacked some public relations skills. The Boychuk search has no where near the high profile of the Fossett search and some of these fears may be exaggerated but are still a concern.

If you have contacts at CASARA or suggestions on how to communicate our need for facts, may be you could send a Private Message to Vanaj. I think he volunteered to take the lead on this.


II. Although I am not a pilot, but I have concluded that pilots approach the whole search thing from a different perspective. Pilots want to have a "reasonable expectation" that the area they search is a likely area where their fellow pilot has disappeared. Hashing out all the known facts of the lost pilots flight is a very productive enterprise that helps the pilot searchers get that "reasonable expectation" that motivates them to search. This is why I think it is imperative that a direct contact is made CASARA to get the facts. Otherwise what motivates this very skilled group of searchers will not be there and they will not participate.

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Jim, that is a good assessment. I agree.

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Ditto...now Al, (30 years in SAR) has stated the same things I have...

Now there are several others posted here that real facts were needed/wanted...(including BP) some with high levels of experience in this area(some that were not involved with Fossett and knew not of our frustrations there due to the lack of facts)...now all of these just can't be ignored and pushed aside because this is a holiday weekend...it would only take a 15 min call or a couple of emails to get the facts...and since InternetSAR.org was contacted by the SAR Team/Family to help with the search on Dec 5th I think that would be an ample amount of time to get the facts even by Government standards...

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php?...rue#Post1066350

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"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."...Calvin Coolidge 30th President of the USA.

Edited by vanaj (12/29/07 10:09 AM)

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I cannot accept the premise that we should simply be a “bunch of armchairs” and act like mushrooms and just look at the imagery provided to us and stop all of the useless chatter and “second guessing” on this forum.

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I don't think Blue Penguin knew the connations of "a bunch of armchairs". He has stated in the past that French is his native language and that he uses some kind of translation software for English. May be he should get a pass on that comment because of his inability to understand the full ramifications of his idiom. All things considered, Blue Penguin is a righteous dude

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This quotation was not mine, People....

"You've got a lot of armchair searchers out there who really have no idea what a crash site looks like" Major Cynthia Ryan, Nevada Civil Air Patrol.

Blue21 already knows this quotation since a long time ago, besides, since he was the first of us to report it in this thread...

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>link<

Members of the CAP for the most part are weekenders and volunteers. They are not professional aviators and their expertise is limited. I was once in the CAP when I was very young and learned to fly when I was 16. I think that the CAP woman aviator made a major mistake when she chimed that the internet searchers were just a bunch of armchairs. I may be an armchair but I will bet I have more flying time than she will ever have.

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I don't very well see for what obscure reason he attempts to start a quarrel with me about that....

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