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Mooseguides
Searcher


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 54
Loc: Stephenville , Newfoundland
Re: Just updated initial post [Re: fishcat]
      #1083179 - 12/29/07 10:08 AM

Fishcat,
looks like the ball is rolling and I'm sure good things will happen also what Ken says is right we have to give it some time to get there and it appears that the right people are starting to get onboard and the facts will be forthcoming , what we need after the facts are good eyes and some dedication to the tasks at hand..........AL


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vanaj
Searcher


Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1717
Loc: Reno, NV
Re: Just updated initial post [Re: Mooseguides]
      #1083184 - 12/29/07 10:12 AM

Quote:

Fishcat,
looks like the ball is rolling and I'm sure good things will happen also what Ken says is right we have to give it some time to get there and it appears that the right people are starting to get onboard and the facts will be forthcoming , what we need after the facts are good eyes and some dedication to the tasks at hand..........AL




The communication line with the SAR Team/people with the facts has been open since Dec 5th...

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php?...rue#Post1066350

--------------------
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."...Calvin Coolidge 30th President of the USA.


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blue_penguin
Searcher


Reged: 10/02/07
Posts: 440
Loc: France
Post deleted *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: Blue21]
      #1083188 - 12/29/07 10:16 AM

Post deleted by blue_penguin

Edited by blue_penguin (12/31/07 09:27 AM)


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vanaj
Searcher


Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1717
Loc: Reno, NV
Re: Bunch of Armchairs [Re: blue_penguin]
      #1083195 - 12/29/07 10:24 AM

Quote:


Quote:

Quote:

I cannot accept the premise that we should simply be a “bunch of armchairs” and act like mushrooms and just look at the imagery provided to us and stop all of the useless chatter and “second guessing” on this forum.




I don't think Blue Penguin knew the connations of "a bunch of armchairs". He has stated in the past that French is his native language and that he uses some kind of translation software for English. May be he should get a pass on that comment because of his inability to understand the full ramifications of his idiom. All things considered, Blue Penguin is a righteous dude




"You've got a lot of armchair searchers out there who really have no idea what a crash site looks like" Major Cynthia Ryan, Nevada Civil Air Patrol.




I think many of the "old timers" here knew just what you meant with this statement...

For what it is worth I think you deserve the Award for the most improved, most knowledge gained, most helpful with outside image processing, and the most likely to make some one laugh...thank you for you contributions...

--------------------
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."...Calvin Coolidge 30th President of the USA.


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supersquint
Searcher


Reged: 10/10/06
Posts: 107
Loc: Deployed
Re: Just updated initial post [Re: vanaj]
      #1083200 - 12/29/07 10:30 AM


We have a new volunteer in our efforts that has agreed to act as a liaison to the Canadian search entities. In fact he is an experienced Canadian SAR personnel with 20 years experience. He has agreed to contact the Boychuk searchmaster and relay known facts.

If you have not been asked by Ken or myself to act as a liaison please refrain from contacting the Canadian SAR officials directly.

--------------------
In God we trust...all others we monitor.

You will make all kinds of mistakes; but as long as you are generous and true, and also fierce, you cannot hurt the world or even seriously distress her. She was made to be wooed and won by youth. -Churchill


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KenBarbalace
Searcher


Reged: 09/27/07
Posts: 609
Loc: Portland Maine
Re: Just updated initial post [Re: vanaj]
      #1083211 - 12/29/07 10:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Fishcat,
looks like the ball is rolling and I'm sure good things will happen also what Ken says is right we have to give it some time to get there and it appears that the right people are starting to get onboard and the facts will be forthcoming , what we need after the facts are good eyes and some dedication to the tasks at hand..........AL




The communication line with the SAR Team/people with the facts has been open since Dec 5th...

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php?...rue#Post1066350



Our first task was purely technical. From this I mean, we knew they had imagery they wanted evaluated based on what they believed to be the most promising search locations. Our task was to get the imagery from DigitalGlobe servers, process it and put it on our servers. This took a lot of work and we had other delays like server issues on both sides.

Color me naive, but if a search team comes to me and says they have imagery that they need evaluated, I am going to assume they were careful enough to have collected imagery based on their best information. Why would they want to waste their time and ours on imagery that had no chance of containing what it is we are looking for. I simply saw at the time (and still see) no need for me or anyone else to second guess their judgment. Thus we did not bother to pursue that line of questioning. I'm actually stunned at how hostile some people have become over this issue and think it is completely uncalled for.

Since, however, there are concerns about whether or not the imagery provided to us is based on good information and since we are fortunate enough to have someone who has volunteered to help us with this matter, we are working on getting the answers people are now wanting. The clock on these questions started ticking on Dec 26th, which was Boxing Day in Canada (anyone care to explain what this is?), NOT on Dec 5th. Being that this is a major holiday and the key contacts are out for the holiday we need time to ask the right questions to the right people via our liaison who knows how to talk in their lingo.

Now I will agree that as we grow we need to develop the the ability to help SAR teams choose imagery priorities, but we do not have that ability at this time. InternetSAR.org is after all only about one month old. In time we will recruit our own SAR professionals who will help choose imagery priorities and we will have SAR professionals who will act as liaisons for us with SAR teams and will be able to ask the right questions and provide members with the right answers.

For today, however, we are learning as we go and must work within our limitations. This means we MUST put faith in the SAR teams we work for that they have sound reasoning for picking the imagery they have asked us to review. If individual members go out on their own and try to interrogate SAR teams on their own for the questions they think they are owed answers to, then those members run the risk of torpedoing all of our hard efforts.

We must prove that we can do what we promise to do, which is evaluate imagery and manage reports, before we can gain the credibility we need to have earned a seat at the decision making table.

We can not bring professionals into our ranks unless we can ourselves act like professionals.

--------------------
InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA

My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later

Edited by KenBarbalace (12/29/07 10:48 AM)


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vanaj
Searcher


Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1717
Loc: Reno, NV
Re: Just updated initial post [Re: supersquint]
      #1083212 - 12/29/07 10:42 AM

Quote:


We have a new volunteer in our efforts that has agreed to act as a liaison to the Canadian search entities. In fact he is an experienced Canadian SAR personnel with 20 years experience. He has agreed to contact the Boychuk searchmaster and relay known facts.

If you have not been asked by Ken or myself to act as a liaison please refrain from contacting the Canadian SAR officials directly.





I don't think anyone has posted anything about contacting them directly...

--------------------
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."...Calvin Coolidge 30th President of the USA.


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Mooseguides
Searcher


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 54
Loc: Stephenville , Newfoundland
Re: Just updated initial post [Re: Mooseguides]
      #1083214 - 12/29/07 10:45 AM

Roger, That............AL

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gursel2
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Reged: 12/27/07
Posts: 8
Re: Just updated initial post [Re: Mooseguides]
      #1083240 - 12/29/07 11:24 AM

I have been asked by Ken to act as the liaison between the Boychuk Family and the other SAR groups for this mission. I have sent out initial emails introducing ourselves and what we are doing. On Monday I will contact the other SAR organizations to gather information for us to put together a briefing document for searchers to read before viewing the imagery.
I have been involved in Search and Rescue efforts for twenty years (my first air search mission was thirty years ago), and I have been involved in coordinating search’s (I was a CASARA Search Coordinator and I have completed the Canadian Forces Searchmaster course) similar to the Ron Boychuk search. I am very familiar with what the search team did and the planning that went into the search effort. I can tell you that during the search mission (and afterwards) a large number of tips and sightings would have been received and analyzed. I can assure you that the search team would have followed up on each viable sighting report until they were satisfied that it was not the missing aircraft.
For SAR Boychuk we must be disciplined and trust that the SAR teams have done their jobs and have done their jobs well. I have spotted from aircraft (fixed and rotary wing) in terrain that is similar to where Boychuk went missing and I can tell you it is a difficult thing to do. Doing a “valley shoot” well holding onto your seat in a Buffalo and still scanning out the window is no picnic.
I have also been involved in introducing new technology to the SAR community. I can tell you from past experience that SAR people are suspicious of new technology, new methodologies and new organizations coming forward. We have to prove our technology and our organization so that we can sit at the table when a new SAR mission is launched.
In order for us to move this effort forward I would ask the following things:
• I would ask for your patience and continued hard work while Ken and the team continue to put together the technology, methodologies that will make InternetSAR a success.
• I would ask for your patience while I contact and build a rapport with Ron’s family and the SAR teams that worked on the mission. From this I am confident we can gather more information and not duplicate effort or follow every newspaper story.
• I would ask that you not run off and start bombarding the family and the SAR organizations with questions, let them see InternetSAR as a professional organization that can help them in the SAR community. If you have a question you would like asked PM it to me and I would be more then willing to discuss it with you ( I have taken notes of the questions and thoughts in the earlier pages that need followup).
• I will ask you to be realistic, this is not an active search in all probability the “hot” leads that we discover will not be able to be followed up on until the spring (these are high elevations and prone to avalanches). I can also tell you that in British Columbia there are over 300 aircraft that are reported as still missing.
From this I believe there will be a time that we will be involved in the outset of a search mission and will be able to supply sightings for the active search team to followup on.

Thanks
Greg

Edited by gursel2 (12/29/07 12:46 PM)


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blue_penguin
Searcher


Reged: 10/02/07
Posts: 440
Loc: France
Re: Boxing Day [Re: KenBarbalace]
      #1083259 - 12/29/07 11:50 AM

Quote:

Dec 26th, which was Boxing Day in Canada (anyone care to explain what this is?)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_Day



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