KenBarbalace
Searcher
Reged: 09/27/07
Posts: 609
Loc: Portland Maine
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Quote:
Boychuk’s airplane couldn’t have a more camouflaged paint job, especially for autumn, unless, maybe, if it was painted forest green and black. This is going to be really difficult to see. If I had an airplane, I’d have it painted day-glo/neon colors with sparkles and glitter and flashing strobe lights, ok, maybe not the strobe lights, but maybe the pilots here on the forum can explain why airplanes aren’t routinely painted to be more distinguishable from the terrain. 
I've been thinking the same thing since I first saw the plane. Maybe the FAA could require all planes to come with disco balls. 
But yes, as vanaj says testing the ELT regularly would help tremendously.
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InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA
My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later
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KenBarbalace
Searcher
Reged: 09/27/07
Posts: 609
Loc: Portland Maine
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It was suggested that I post a list of who is doing what and based on what I know here is the list:
Me: running (or being run over by) the show. I'm responsible for all programming of InternetSAR.org and all tech support. If it don't work its my fault.
Supersquint: Professional imagery analyst. She is our senior evaluator and in charge of tutorials. She is also working her contacts to help us establish official liaisons with SAR teams in various countries like Australia and the U.S. Given how the CAP feels about the MTurk Fossett search, the U.S. could be a tough nut to crack.
Please be patient if supersquint disappears from time to time. Uncle Sam owns her and can take her out of circulation from time to time without warning.
Cuddly Bear: in charge of imagery processing If he gets hit by a bus we are in trouble.
gursel2: our Canadian liaison he will be our official channel for all factual information about the Boychuk search. He has made contact with the Boychuk family.
LJeanL: helping write copy for InternetSAR.org.
Fishcat & Blue Penguin: helping Supersquint separate rumint from facts.
no_stranger: Our GEC advocate. He's helping me with long range forum decisions.
The only official email for InternetSAR.org will come from individuals with InternetSAR.org email addresses. This list is being kept to only those who absolutely need them. The list includes: Me (I'm ultimately responsible for everything), Cuddly Bear (acquiring imagery), Supersquint (recruiting imagery analysts and SAR liaisons) and Gursel2 (Canadian Liaison).
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InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA
My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later
Edited by KenBarbalace (01/15/08 11:02 AM)
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blue_penguin
Searcher
Reged: 10/02/07
Posts: 392
Loc: France
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 Post Deleted
Edited by blue_penguin (12/31/07 09:32 AM)
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joe1203
Tourist
Reged: 10/23/07
Posts: 14
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Hi,
following this thread from page 1, I found no useful weather informations for the day Mr Boychuck went missing. So I searched myself.
Here are the weather observations from Vancouver CYVR, October 23, hourly from 5 to 11 UTC (12 to 18 PDT).
CYVR 230500Z 08008KT 12SM OVC026 13/10 A3037 RMK SC8 SLP285
CYVR 230600Z 06009KT 12SM OVC027 13/10 A3038 RMK SC8 SLP288
CYVR 230700Z 06010KT 10SM OVC027 13/10 A3038 RMK SC8 SLP288
CYVR 230800Z 07006KT 10SM FEW018 BKN026 OVC046 13/11 A3037 RMK SF2SC5SC2 SLP286
CYVR 230900Z 06007KT 10SM BKN029 BKN034 OVC046 13/11 A3037 RMK SC5SC2SC2 SLP283
CYVR 231028Z 07008KT 10SM -SHRA BKN032 OVC049 13/ RMK SC5SC3
CYVR 231100Z 06005KT 10SM SCT032 OVC056 13/10 A3033 RMK SC4SC4 SLP272
For the non-pilots.
Generaly low winds 5 to 10Kts from 060 to 080 and a low ceiling.
From 12 to 14 PDT overast cloud layer at 2600 to 2700 ft over CYVR (nearly sealevel). In the late afternoon lifting up to 5000+ft (read: getting better).
Note: These are the observations from Vancouver. They are not representative for the whole route Mr Boychuck flew.
They are for information only.
No good weather for a mountain trip.
It is possible that around noon, most ridges were in clouds.
The tendency to become better in the late afternoon could be
the reason for the late departure of Mr Boychuck.
If it helps, I can try to get some aviation weather information from other locations enroute.
Joe
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LJeanL
Searcher
Reged: 10/07/07
Posts: 186
Loc: Maine
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Quote:
Forget the fancy paint job...just test the ELT after each flight like the Fed's suggest...and change the battery and have the newest and best one avail..after all this is NOT the place to go cheap...A while back there was an operator out of Calif that had the top of their horizontal stabilizer (elevator) painted Da-Glo orange
<snip snip snip>
If you are an Instrumented rated Pilot then file IFR and fly IFR...you will almost always be in radar contact through out the country and talking to Air Traffic Control...for the non pilots..IFR means "Instrument Flight Rules"...and not "I Follow Roads" as suggested earlier by a non-Instrument Rated Pilot...
Just these two factors, having a working ELT installed and filing a flight plan, would probably make our services unnecessary. That these two factors were common to both the Boychuk and Fossett disappearance is no surprise; we wouldn't be looking for them otherwise. It's probably safe to assume this will be the case in any future searches we become involved in. Media attention about this could help to cause more awareness in the aviation community. Maybe talking up this point in interviews or on the website would cause some pilots to think about the importance of installing and maintaining ELTs and filing flight plans. At least in the event of a crash, they would have these two major advantages to figuring out where to search.
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jreves
First Post
Reged: 12/30/07
Posts: 1
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Greetings!
I'm new to this thread, and to this search effort. I'm Colorado-based Private Pilot with no SAR experience, and no experience in evaluating imagery - just a desire to help.
I'm getting a sense in this thread that there's a great deal of diversity in the experience and skills of the participants. As I understand it, our role in this process is to focus on the evaluation of the imagery, and generate high-quality leads for the SAR team on the ground.
I'm comfortable using the features of Google Earth - but I'm a complete novice in the evaluation of overhead imagery. The basic tutorial I'm looking for would address:
o How long - as a rule of thumb - should it take to thoroughly evaluate one image set?
o Aside from the outline of the aircraft, what other telltale features should we be looking for?
o I've discovered on my own that scanning the image - then spinning it 90 degrees and scanning it again, until I've looked at it from 360 degrees - is useful. Are the other practical techniques for evaluating these image sets?
o I understand how to turn the overlay on and off, and that these image sets may not perfectly line up. You can also use the slider bar at the bottom of the "Places" box to vary the transparency of the overlay, and that can be helpful to compare the overlay with the previous imagery.
o Is there an easy way to retrieve an adjacent image set?
Basically - I think I'm looking for a handful of practical techniques and considerations to help to quickly and thoroughly evaluate the image sets. There seems to be several folk on this project with training and experience who could help by posting some pointers for us newbies.
I believe this is really at the heart of making this project a credible effort - the quality of the evaluation and leads we can provide by developing and sharing techniques for good analysis.
cheers,
jreves
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vanaj
Searcher
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1418
Loc: Reno, NV
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Quote:
Is there an easy way to retrieve an adjacent image set?
cheers,
jreves
I think you have a pretty good handle on most of this...in order to retrieve an image from a specific location all you need to do is get the Lat/Long of the area you are interested in and input them into the proper page, http://internetsar.org/searches/boychuk/index.html , in InternetSAR.org (making sure to login first) and then d'load the KML file it will generate and open it in GE...
Pretty easy after the first time and you know what the screens will look like...
Welcome aboard...
Jim
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
"I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts." - Abraham Lincoln
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Blue21
Searcher
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 106
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Original post that quote was from in this reply has been deleted by original poster.
This material was removed because it was mainly off topic.
no_stranger
Edited by no_stranger (01/02/08 12:48 AM)
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Blue21
Searcher
Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 106
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Quote:
Quote:
I don’t think that this forum is the place for fanciful unfounded assertions as you are attempting to “envisage”. The fact reported is that Boychuk made a position report over Spense Bridge.
Quote from Vangi “When an SAR Officer (PR type) is talking to the media and makes the statement that Ron made a position report over Spense Bridge.. I don’t think even the Enquirer could mess that up..”
To accept your theory one would have to believe that the Canadian SAR officer deliberately lied to the media. I don’t think that you are qualified to make that determination and should refrain from such shenanigans in the future. SAR is serious business and it is no place to just blog around. If you have hard evidence that the SAR officer, 2nd Lieut Alex Cadieux, a spokesman for the Comox 19 Wing, is not credible then post it here or withdraw you allegation.
Alternatively the media could be misquoting SAR officials, which frequently happens OR at the time the information was given it was believed to be true, but later discounted or brought into question.
Even media reports that quote SAR officials is rumint until proven otherwise. Blue Penguin has done a good job of defining what it is that is actually known to us as fact at this point in time and it meshes up with the explanation Cuddly Bear and I have been given as to the reason the imagery we are working with was selected.
Once Greg has made the proper contacts hopefully we can get better understandings as to why we are searching where we are and we will be able to dispel some of the rumint.
“Even media reports that quote SAR officials is rumint until proven otherwise.”
Could you please tell me exactly what this sentence means and provide a definition of the word “rumint”. If it means what I think you are saying then none of the reports on Boychuk, not even that he existed or made a flight in an airplane can be relied upon. Oh come on now!
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vanaj
Searcher
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1418
Loc: Reno, NV
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don’t think that this forum is the place for fanciful unfounded assertions as you are attempting to “envisage”. The fact reported is that Boychuk made a position report over Spense Bridge.
Quote from Vangi “When an SAR Officer (PR type) is talking to the media and makes the statement that Ron made a position report over Spense Bridge.. I don’t think even the Enquirer could mess that up..”
To accept your theory one would have to believe that the Canadian SAR officer deliberately lied to the media. I don’t think that you are qualified to make that determination and should refrain from such shenanigans in the future. SAR is serious business and it is no place to just blog around. If you have hard evidence that the SAR officer, 2nd Lieut Alex Cadieux, a spokesman for the Comox 19 Wing, is not credible then post it here or withdraw you allegation.
Alternatively the media could be misquoting SAR officials, which frequently happens OR at the time the information was given it was believed to be true, but later discounted or brought into question.
Even media reports that quote SAR officials is rumint until proven otherwise. Blue Penguin has done a good job of defining what it is that is actually known to us as fact at this point in time and it meshes up with the explanation Cuddly Bear and I have been given as to the reason the imagery we are working with was selected.
Once Greg has made the proper contacts hopefully we can get better understandings as to why we are searching where we are and we will be able to dispel some of the rumint.
“Even media reports that quote SAR officials is rumint until proven otherwise.”
Could you please tell me exactly what this sentence means and provide a definition of the word “rumint”. If it means what I think you are saying then none of the reports on Boychuk, not even that he existed or made a flight in an airplane can be relied upon. Oh come on now!
From:supersquint,
Quote:
The reason is that you simply cannot trust the stuff we read in magazines, and hear on blogs etc. We call it RUMINT (rumor intelligence) Its a joke among the intell community, because its not REAL intelligence.
So I gather from her statement that unless you hear it from the intell community it can't be trusted...
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
"I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts." - Abraham Lincoln
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