Google
Official Google Earth Download Site

Google Earth Community

Members' Open Area >> Open Forum

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | >> (show all)
redlands19
Searcher


Reged: 09/09/07
Posts: 553
Loc: Devon UK
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk [Re: Blue21]
      #1082188 - 12/27/07 07:59 PM

Quote:





"As to the flight plan...I thought Canada was like Mexico and flight plans were required on all flights..VFR or not..maybe we have a CA pilot out there that can answer this for us...there were also reports of NORAD tracking targets in that same area but like Fossett, they could not do a positive ID on the aircraft..."

So we look and look more...


Part VI - General Operating and Flight Rules

Canadian Aviation Regulations 2007-1

Requirement to File a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.73 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in IFR flight unless an IFR flight plan has been filed.

(2) No pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight unless a VFR flight plan or a VFR flight itinerary has been filed, except where the flight is conducted within 25 nautical miles of the departure aerodrome.

Filing of a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.75 (1) A flight plan shall be filed with an air traffic control unit, a flight service station or a community aerodrome radio station.




Would suggest a VFR flight without a flight plan then! Ah well, '[fluffy bunnies] happens', non of us are perfect!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
vanaj
Searcher


Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 1719
Loc: Reno, NV
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk [Re: redlands19]
      #1082190 - 12/27/07 08:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:





"As to the flight plan...I thought Canada was like Mexico and flight plans were required on all flights..VFR or not..maybe we have a CA pilot out there that can answer this for us...there were also reports of NORAD tracking targets in that same area but like Fossett, they could not do a positive ID on the aircraft..."

So we look and look more...


Part VI - General Operating and Flight Rules

Canadian Aviation Regulations 2007-1

Requirement to File a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.73 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in IFR flight unless an IFR flight plan has been filed.

(2) No pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight unless a VFR flight plan or a VFR flight itinerary has been filed, except where the flight is conducted within 25 nautical miles of the departure aerodrome.

Filing of a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.75 (1) A flight plan shall be filed with an air traffic control unit, a flight service station or a community aerodrome radio station.




Would suggest a VFR flight without a flight plan then! Ah well, '[fluffy bunnies] happens', non of us are perfect!





That's 2 for 2...

Was he on a VFR plan and had reported his position/time over the Bridge...

--------------------
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."...Calvin Coolidge 30th President of the USA.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Candoman
First Post


Reged: 12/27/07
Posts: 1
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk [Re: KenBarbalace]
      #1082194 - 12/27/07 08:16 PM

I have had a look at the overlays and the old Google picture. The overlays are taken too early in the day and with too much cloud cover. It makes the search useless for comparison. I will check back in a few days and hopefully newer cloud free comparisons may become available.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
KenBarbalace
Searcher


Reged: 09/27/07
Posts: 609
Loc: Portland Maine
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk [Re: Candoman]
      #1082205 - 12/27/07 08:49 PM

Quote:

I have had a look at the overlays and the old Google picture. The overlays are taken too early in the day and with too much cloud cover. It makes the search useless for comparison. I will check back in a few days and hopefully newer cloud free comparisons may become available.




Most of the imagery is mostly cloud free although there are a few areas of clouds. This is almost always the case with satellite imagery. Just ask some of the members who participated in the Steve Fossett search about some of that imagery. It was like 80% cloud cover. That really sucked.

The odds are any imagery we would be adding in the near future would have all been taken at the same time as the imagery we are working on now. The Boychuk search team really can't take any new imagery until spring because of the snow cover. What will probably happen is that we will work through all of the imagery that they already have and then suspend this search effort until the snow melts and they can get new imagery.

Basically we will do the best we can with what we have in hopes that fortune smiles down upon us and we are able to bring Ron Boychuk's family and friends some closure in the near future.

--------------------
InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA

My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later

Edited by KenBarbalace (12/27/07 08:54 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Blue21
Searcher


Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 117
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk [Re: vanaj]
      #1082208 - 12/27/07 08:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:





"As to the flight plan...I thought Canada was like Mexico and flight plans were required on all flights..VFR or not..maybe we have a CA pilot out there that can answer this for us...there were also reports of NORAD tracking targets in that same area but like Fossett, they could not do a positive ID on the aircraft..."

So we look and look more...


Part VI - General Operating and Flight Rules

Canadian Aviation Regulations 2007-1

Requirement to File a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.73 (1) Subject to subsection (3), no pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in IFR flight unless an IFR flight plan has been filed.

(2) No pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight unless a VFR flight plan or a VFR flight itinerary has been filed, except where the flight is conducted within 25 nautical miles of the departure aerodrome.

Filing of a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

602.75 (1) A flight plan shall be filed with an air traffic control unit, a flight service station or a community aerodrome radio station.




Would suggest a VFR flight without a flight plan then! Ah well, '[fluffy bunnies] happens', non of us are perfect!





That's 2 for 2...

Was he on a VFR plan and had reported his position/time over the Bridge...



Excerpt from Aviation Topic of the Week on VFR flight following in Canada, May 9, 2004

The AIP Canada, RAC 5.1, acknowledges that position reports from VFR aircraft while enroute are not required, but also says they are encouraged. The reason? If you're overdue at destination, SAR operations will commence from your last known position. If that was your point of departure, this can waste a lot of time that could be critical to your survival. If you make position reports as you go, SAR can go immediately to that last known point and start searching from there, rather than wasting time on the early parts of your flight that you have already successfully passed.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
KenBarbalace
Searcher


Reged: 09/27/07
Posts: 609
Loc: Portland Maine
MILESTONE: 400 members on InternetSAR.org [Re: Blue21]
      #1082209 - 12/27/07 08:56 PM

Folks we have passed an important milestone. We now have over 400 members on InternetSAR.org this is up from 40 members yesterday morning. How's that for growth?

--------------------
InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA

My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Blue21
Searcher


Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 117
Re: MILESTONE: 400 members on InternetSAR.org [Re: KenBarbalace]
      #1082213 - 12/27/07 09:04 PM

Quote:

Folks we have passed an important milestone. We now have over 400 members on InternetSAR.org this is up from 40 members yesterday morning. How's that for growth?


Phenomenal growth. Indicates the power of the air waves combined with the internet.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
KenBarbalace
Searcher


Reged: 09/27/07
Posts: 609
Loc: Portland Maine
STATS UPDATE: Lots of reports to evaluate [Re: KenBarbalace]
      #1082216 - 12/27/07 09:11 PM

If you are a report evaluator at InternetSAR.org PLEASE take some time and start reviewing reports. We now have two dozen reports that need to be evaluated for the Ron Boychuck search and almost as many reports that need to be evaluated for the Fossett search.

We need to make sure that we are working through the reported objects in a timely fashion so that members do not get frustrated by not seeing feedback on their reports. We all remember how that was from the original MTurk effort.

I do have some ideas that might make the reviewing of imagery easier that I will try to program in over the next couple of days, but after getting only 5-6 hours of sleep last night I'm going to go to bed a little earlier tonight.

--------------------
InternetSAR.org: Volunteers collaboratively analyzing aerial and satellite imagery to assist in search and rescue efforts.
DISCUSS ACTIVE SEARCHES: Ron Boychuk in British Columbia, Canada & Steve Fossett in Nevada, USA

My blog posts on my MTurk search experience:
Using the Internet to Revolutionize Search and Rescue
Internet search for Steve Fossett eight weeks later


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
no_strangerModerator
Master Guide


Reged: 10/26/05
Posts: 4369
Loc: Western Australia GMT+8
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk [Re: vanaj]
      #1082222 - 12/27/07 09:18 PM

vanaj,
is there, or could there be anything to be learnt from Rons first leg from Springbank to Revelstoke ?

Departure time would give us some idea of how long it took to get to Revelstoke.
And if we can not determine if a flight plan was submitted, someone on the ground there may have been talking to him,,,(refueler etc, ) before he departed ?

It seems to me that that particular leg was also over some very remote and rough terrain, that doesn't lend itself to IFR at all.

If he flew this direct, it indicates to me that he is capable and confident enough to plan the second leg as a direct route as well, specially considering the available time he had to get to Qualicum before sunset.

Unless he was experiencing fuel consumption problems, or had strong head winds, the 172 would have definitely had the endurance to do it.

With the lack of official information and lack of confirmation as to news reports, I am finding myself starting to be left with the option of making assumptions.

The pic of his plane is the only clue so far as to what his plane was equipped with.

any comments ?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
rpmckinley
Explorer


Reged: 09/10/07
Posts: 187
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: InternetSAR.org: Search for Ron Boychuk [Re: Blue21]
      #1082235 - 12/27/07 09:53 PM

Quote:

The AIP Canada, RAC 5.1, acknowledges that position reports from VFR aircraft while enroute are not required, but also says they are encouraged. The reason? If you're overdue at destination, SAR operations will commence from your last known position. If that was your point of departure, this can waste a lot of time that could be critical to your survival. If you make position reports as you go, SAR can go immediately to that last known point and start searching from there, rather than wasting time on the early parts of your flight that you have already successfully passed.




Blue21, You're a pilot, and so am I. You and I both know about these flight plans, and the reasons for them. We have several other people on these search efforts who are also pilots. But we also have many people here who are not pilots. Infact we have people participating here that probably have never been in a small private aircraft at all. They each have their own reason for participating, and we welcome each and every one of them.
As licensed pilots and owners and operators of private aircraft, you and I understand the significance and importance of these VFR/IFR rules and the implications and reasons why we follow those regulations. That gives us the advantage over others who are just being introduced to this world of aviation. Because of that advantage it then falls upon us in these Search and Rescue/Recovery operations to try and impart some of that knowledge along to others.

Our experience, training, and knowledge can quickly lead us into frustrations when we find ourselves looking at imagery that our experience tells us is probably useless. We know there has to be more accurate data including information from air traffic control. Mass media reports are inaccurate and misleading. In order for this Internet tool to gain credibility we will have to show the world that we can organize and conduct a systematic search effort, whether that effort produces possitive results or not.
You have to remember that this InternetSAR effort is still less than 2 month old. We are still trying to gain recognition and acceptance in the SAR communities. Until that time we are forced to review the images that are presented to us, good,. bad. or ugly. And in that process people like you and the others who are trained pilots and professionals must hang in here to help train others so that this type of cooperative effort does not get lost in the frustrations and lack of possitive results.
My goal for being here is the hopes that if I ever become one of those missing pilots that perhaps one of the people that I tried to help here might still take the time to look for me.
I sense your frustration my friend, and it may be a tough reality, but in the long run what we are building here goes beyond the search for both Ron Boychuk and Steve Fossett.
The World Wide Web, (The Internet) provides by far the largest community of people with the same interests that could ever be organized for any reason. It's time we put it to use for things other than email, spam, weather reports, and pornography.
Ken Barbalace may be capabile of developing the software programs, but, as good as he is he still can not build this thing without people like you and the professional Imagery anaylists we have to help get people trained in what to look for, why and where.

And that goes for the rest of you out there as well.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | >> (show all)




Extra information
0 registered and 8 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Hill, Jumble, Kempster, mcshea98, jeffryv, dulce, esterrett, NormB, Frank_McVey, BeadieJay, TheLedge, Cyclonic, no_stranger, LuciaM, tekgergedan, Noisette, danescombe, Michal_Drewniak, mutex, marinerfan, Delta102, bebop 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating: **
Topic views: 259249

Rate this topic

Jump to

earth.google.com    bbs.keyhole.com

*
UBB.threads™ 6.5.1.1