Google
Official Google Earth Download Site

Google Earth Community System Reliability: HIGH

Earth Moderated >> History Illustrated (Moderated)

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | >> (show all)
Haron
Tourist


Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 2
Re: Nakba- The Palestinian Catastrophe [Re: Thameen_Darby]
      #527482 - 07/25/06 03:02 AM

Hi

I have no idea who this guy thinks he is.
All I know is that there is no cennection between Kafr Kama, where I live, and the Palestinians.
No palestinian lives in Kafr Kama and the village was surely not founded by them.
The people living in this village are Circassians (Adygha) and it was founded in 1880 by circassians who got here with help from the turks after the Circassian war of independence against Russia.
My people established this village from mere ruins, and from then till today all the villagers are Circassians, we speak our own native language and keep our own traditions from Caucasus, our mother land.

to larn more about our history:


Circassian online library


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Myron_J
Tourist


Reged: 09/19/05
Posts: 62
Re: Welcome Circassian [Re: Haron]
      #527983 - 07/25/06 08:21 AM

Dear Haron,

Welcome. It is indeed ironic that the first time i really learn something about the Circassians is here, on a thread dedicated to the Palestinian Nakbah.

I see that the annual Circassian festival is very soon and I wish you all the best.

I went to read about
Circassians in the Diaspora and see how complicated things are.

After reading about our Israeli community of Circassians, where the situation seems pretty good, i read about the pride of the jordanian Circassians take in joining the Palestinian fight against Zionism in the 1936.

Are all Circassian's Suni or is it mixed.

Can minorities like the Druze and the Circassians in Israel, Syria, Jordan help bridge between the struggling cousins? What do you think?

With Blessings of Quiet for all sides of the border.
myron


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Hanaq_Botas
Tourist


Reged: 01/06/06
Posts: 17
Re: Nakba- The Palestinian Catastrophe [Re: Haron]
      #528064 - 07/25/06 08:55 AM

Hi Haron,

As Thameen puts Kafr Kama as a destroyed village as well as an existing locality, there must be a mistake, which is not unusual with such a vaste work as he did. That's the great thing about this forum: to find the truth together.
Thanks for the information and the link about the Circassians. Is it true that there is one other Circassian village, called Rehanya?

Regards,
Hanaq


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
webnut2000
Tourist


Reged: 05/29/06
Posts: 197
Re: Nakba- The Palestinian Catastrophe [Re: Thameen_Darby]
      #528553 - 07/25/06 03:24 PM

Quote:

Thanks for unblocking the discussion. I hope this forum stays professional and neutral as much as possible.

Plz residents of Israel/Palestine, I'm waiting your feedback regarding the correct coordinates of the villages.

Thameen




1944 image:





Edited by esterrett (07/25/06 06:42 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Thameen_Darby
Tourist


Reged: 02/02/06
Posts: 134
Loc: Jenin, Palestine.
Re: Nakba- The Palestinian Catastrophe [Re: Haron]
      #534039 - 07/29/06 05:28 AM

Hi Haron

You started your message by "I have no idea who this guy thinks he is", and I think this is not a polite way to start ur feedback.

Yes Kafr Kama should not be included in the destroyed villages database. It is not a destroyed village, it survived the 1948 war.

As for if kufr kama residents are Palestinians or not, this is beyond the scope of my project. So do not panic.

In the next update, Kafr Kama will be removed from the destroyed villages group.

Thameen


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
vasechek
Tourist


Reged: 07/30/06
Posts: 10
Re: No bias [Re: Thameen_Darby]
      #536387 - 07/30/06 04:48 PM

Thameen,
Your effort is commendable and your position in limiting the scope of the layer to a certain collection of data pieces is understandable. However, have you considered that in the absense of your clearly stated intent for creating this layer and with the one-sided nature of your collection of data points you make it very easy for the willing to jump to certain conclusions. It is a sad fact that most do NOT go back to history books and limit the research done in order to form (or confirm) an opinion or even an ideology to the easily available (Internet) resources - especially the ones that only provide a maximally concentrated set of data points that are easy to digest. Can you convince yourself that after reading your original post and reviewing your data none of your readers (institutionalized mental cases notwithstanding) will jump to the conclusion that Jews have perpetrated vicious and unprovoked genocide against the Arab population of Israel and therefore today there can be no justice until all of those villages that your collection includes are re-built and their Arab inhabitants are allowed to return there? Would you take responsibility for the minds (and actions that the state of these minds bears) of even 0.5% of the 1400+ (according to one of your posts) of those that have downloaded your collection and used the information to come to a conclusion of hate and justify hateful actions, including physical violence, on the parts of themselves or their brethren?
Information is a tricky thing. It can be used as a weapon. History is tricky, too, and no single fact or event in history is not contested by two or more opposing views or even witness accounts of that "fact" or event. Throughout the history, history has been used for propaganda and incitement. The mechanism is simple and very effective - present a highly concentrated set of "factual evidence" (all furthering one single idea while omitting any information that might contradict the idea) using the language, statistics and/or images that can lead the subjects of the exercise to a single conclusion - the idea behind the dataset.
I don't want to make any conclusions about yourself or anyone else in this e-community, but isn't the purpose of this community to add something positive, constructive and useful to the world? And, if so, isn't the responsibility of each poster to weigh the potential benefit vs. damage that might be caused by their post. One of your grateful readers apparently plans to teach his kids about the "land that was stolen from us" using your data as visual aids. He's probably not the only one to make use of your collection in that way. Are you contributing to the solution or the problem of the existing conflict between Arabs and Jews?
To the moderator who is trying to de-politicize the discussion - the original post and layer can be (and are) interpreted by most in the community as highly political, reflecting on one of the most serious and violent conflicts in the modern world and appears to support an opinion on one of the sides in the conflict (whether or not that is the intention of the author). Why are controversial layers, such as this one, which could be classified as ethnic propaganda, allowed on GE, but the discussion of the issues raised by the original post is censored?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
vasechek
Tourist


Reged: 07/30/06
Posts: 10
Re: Nakba- The Palestinian Catastrophe [Re: Myron_J]
      #536399 - 07/30/06 05:09 PM

Quoting Myron_J:
"Israel has a right to Exist! As does Palestine. There has been too much suffering. We must learn to see theirs, even if we are not totally responsible...and we must realize that we are part of the game that has created the suffering. "

Quoting another responder to the original post:
"My son is 10 months old! Soon Insha’ Allah I will start teaching him about our stolen land and villages!!
We –Palestinians- believe that our return to our beloved land PALESTINE is very close."

Myron, I hate to disappoint you, but what you say is impossible until the intent and honest effort are mutual and extremists on both sides are overwhelmed. I do not see how ripping several one-sided facts (no matter how tragic) out of context of history and presenting to the world as a form of boiled-down truth can lead to the building of the said intent/effort and eliminating extremist views.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
p0ul1234
Tourist


Reged: 07/27/06
Posts: 40
Loc: UK, BERKSHIRE
Re: Nakba- The Palestinian Catastrophe [Re: Thameen_Darby]
      #536402 - 07/30/06 05:11 PM

Thanks this is great, i had a similar thing for India, it is brillant and really intresting

--------------------
POUL1234


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Myron_J
Tourist


Reged: 09/19/05
Posts: 62
Re: Nakba- A Naive Israeli?? [Re: vasechek]
      #536550 - 07/30/06 08:50 PM

While perhaps naive, i am aware of the point you raise and i even agree.

Blatant propoganda abounds..and this place is trying to do something different with the same data..And, i would agree that this data is being presented in an interpretive context that is a big challenge in light of the ongoing conflict.

I believe that Thameen is sincere. I believe your post to to him about the nature of the thread is, like your reply to me, valid and pretty much on target. It is a challenge to Palestinian respondants- maybe one that is almost impossible to meet verbally...The same way it is not easy for me to verbally say the word Nakba.

My participation here give me a chance to express what i believe lies in the basis of Zionism...a deep love of my Land, a commitment to my people AND a commitment to fullifll these with eyes open to reality..understanding that there are other people here as well.

Of course, as humans, we fail a lot on the way...but I believe that at the core, besides being humans who fail, we, Israelis (Zionists) are also humans who feel.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Hanaq_Botas
Tourist


Reged: 01/06/06
Posts: 17
Re: Nakba- The Palestinian Catastrophe [Re: Thameen_Darby]
      #538033 - 07/31/06 05:22 PM

View in Google Earth         View in Google Maps (477 downloads)


Hi Thameen:

I noticed you updated the file. Great. I'll keep putting comments on the locations:

Your placemark for Kafr Bir'im , a Christian village on the Lebanese border, depopulated in 1948 and levelled in 1953, is very close. 300 meters southwest the church is still standing; at least it was when I visited there May 1997. See my placemark. The site is now a national park around an antique synagogue excavated there (before 1948 as far as I know), 50 meters north in the upper left corner of the grass field.

Some people of Kafr Bir'im apparently went or were transported to Jish , three kilometer southeast, that still exists as a village, 500 meters east of your placemark. You put it as a destroyed village and a still existing one at the same time. There might be some truth in that, as part of the original population might have fled after some atrocities in 1948. Walid Khalidi does not mention Jish as a destroyed village. I would like to hear more facts from people there.

I repeat a main source for the destroyed villages:

Walid Khalidi (editor), All that Remains. The Palestinian Villages Occupied and Depopulated by Israel in 1948 , Washington D.C. 1992.
It's also available in Arabic. It's quite expensive now, but libraries should have it or order it at the
Institute for Palestine Studies in Washington.

Three earlier remarks of mine, that you already included in your update, I mention here, so that anyone can react:

- Of Suba , located on a hilltop, only the antique (Byzantine) fundaments of the village are left, as an archeological dig, now belonging to kibbutz Tsuba to the west.

- Bayt Thul I visited with a former villager, her son, his wife and 4 grandchildren. We had a picknick at the ruins of their house on the southern slope of the hill there. They showed me the wells and the rubble where the house once stood. Apparently many stones were used to make a lookout-point.

- The village basin of Imwaz, destroyed in 1967, is clearly visible. The area is now called Park Canada; the village was turned into an archeological (Roman) site along the water from the hill, southeast. It's now a picnic area were I noticed both Jewish and Palestinian visitors.

All the best,

Hanaq


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Report this Post  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | >> (show all)




Extra information
0 registered and 17 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  esterrett, Jumble, Kempster, Hill, mcshea98, dulce, Frank_McVey, jeffryv, NormB, Cyclonic, tekgergedan, no_stranger, LuciaM, BeadieJay, TheLedge, Noisette, danescombe, Michal_Drewniak, freezer_magnet, mutex, marinerfan, Delta102, bebop, MarkAubin 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating: **
Topic views: 100550

Rate this topic

Jump to

earth.google.com    bbs.keyhole.com

*
UBB.threads™ 6.5.1.1