Hill
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The first aerial photo of Carolina Bays, taken in 1930. Source: http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/cbaymenu.html
As I was scanning North Carolina, I saw something that brought to mind a term that I haven't heard since I was majoring in geology 40 years ago - Carolina Bays. (An achievment in itself for someone who often can't remember where the car keys are). I typed the phrase into Google, and got multiple hits - it really was the term to describe what I was looking at. One interesting thing about these oriented oval structures is that geologists are still not sure of their origin. Their signifigance wasn't discovered until the 1930's when aerial photography revealed their true nature. I think the strongest hypothesis is that they are of extra-terrestrial origin, caused by a comet nucleus that broke up in the atmosphere, scattering pieces that gouged out depressions which are all oriented in a NW-SE direction. But there are other theories, some plausible, some unlikely. Click the "web page" links to take you to further discussion of the Carolina Bays. web page 1 web page 2 web page 3 web page 4 web page 5 For more information about this and similar phenomena, go to http://www.perigeezero.org Source
Orientation of the bays points back to a common point of origin to the northwest.
Edited by Hill (04/13/08 12:29 PM)
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Jdbo
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Loc: VA
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And see Obie's earlier post on the same topic, using the Algonkian word "pocosin", the older name for Carolina bays. 
The attached placemark is at Poquoson, Virginia, but if there were a pocosin here, it has likely been drained for development.
-------------------- "It's time to matter."
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Hill
Master Guide
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Sketch of a cross-section of a bay in Virginia made visible by a road cut. Included here are more placemarks in NC, SC, GA, and VA. Much has been lost due to rapid development, though sub-surface evidence remains.
Edited by Hill (04/13/08 12:31 PM)
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nimblebooks_kh
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Neat that you can see the circular impact structure in Lake Waccamaw (Ithe largest).
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Hill
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These lakes look very similar in many ways to the Carolina Bays of the SE U.S. They are located in Southwest Australia about 180 miles SE of Perth. I have arbitrarily named groups of them for easier analysis. There are others outside of these groups.
One hypothesis about the formation of the Carolina Bays proposes that they formed such large ovals in some areas, not just because of a strike by pieces of a disintegrating comet fragments. The resulting lakes were so large because the glowing hot material, coming in at a steep angle, struck a boggy area and the steam created literally exploded large holes out of the soft wet substrate. Strikes on drier ground had much less effect. The Australian area is also an old river course. Could the same processes be in effect here? Any geologist or geomorphologist with knowledge of the area could be of great help here. I haven't found much by googling so far.
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Hill
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Here is yet another reference to oriented lakes, possibly of meteoric origin, in South Africa posted by Cintos . He has created overlays showing the orientation of the lakes. Also check out the links below his name in his signature for posts about other oriented structures.
Edited by Hill (04/13/06 01:10 PM)
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Majoska
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Hill I read this before but this thread has more complete info thant many others www
Quote:
I think the strongest hypothesis is that they are of extra-terrestrial origin, caused by a comet nucleus that broke up in the atmosphere,
Me too I support this hypothesis
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Hill
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Then there are these Arctic lakes that seem to have a different, yet still not fully explained origin. They have been placemarked a number of times. They display a similar orientation and a tendency to be more polygon than oval. More here.
Edited by Hill (08/13/07 01:27 PM)
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SnakePuncess
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OK, I'm intrigued. The Bay you marked in the Bon Air quadrangle in VA is in my backyard. A search turned up the paper that the diagram you posted is from (BTW, that diagram isn't showing a cross section, it's showing a road cut that contains an area of gravel.)
Anyway, I'm going to continue searching for others, but I'm surprised a this particular location being designated as a bay, when it was supposedly created in the 1980s when they built the expressway. Look at a topo of the area (topozone.com) and see that the pond is considered new. I don't know if anyone has done any cores to be able to do a stratigraphy study on it - I will say that from my backyard, it appears rather man-made.
--Bonnie
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Hill
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Quote:
Ice Age Ends Smashingly: Did a comet blow up over eastern Canada?
Sid Perkins for Science News
Evidence unearthed at more than two dozen sites across North America suggests that an extraterrestrial object exploded in Earth's atmosphere above Canada about 12,900 years ago, just as the climate was warming at the end of the last ice age. The explosion sparked immense wildfires, devastated North America's ecosystems and prehistoric cultures, and triggered a millennium-long cold spell, scientists say.
IT'S IN THERE. A layer of carbon-rich sediment (arrow) found here at Murray Springs, Ariz., and elsewhere across North America, provides evidence that an extraterrestrial object blew up over Canada 12,900 years ago. The hallmarks include lumps of glasslike carbon (top), carbon spherules (middle, in cross section), and magnetic grains rich in iridium (bottom). West; (middle inset): Cannon Microprobe
At sites stretching from California to the Carolinas and as far north as Alberta and Saskatchewan—many of which were home to prehistoric people of the Clovis culture—researchers have long noted an enigmatic layer of carbon-rich sediment that was laid down nearly 13 millennia ago. "Clovis artifacts are never found above this black mat," says Allen West, a geophysicist with Geoscience Consulting in Dewey, Ariz. The layer, typically a few millimeters thick, lies between older, underlying strata that are chock-full of mammoth bones and younger, fossilfree sediments immediately above, he notes.
New analyses of samples taken from 26 of those sites reveal several hallmarks of an extraterrestrial object's impact, West and his colleagues reported at the spring meeting of the American Geophysical Union in Acapulco, Mexico.
Samples from the base of the black mat yield most of the clues to its extraterrestrial origin, says Richard B. Firestone, West's coworker and a nuclear physicist at the Lawrence Berkeley (Calif.) National Laboratory. Some of the particles there are small, magnetic grains of material with higher proportions of iridium than are found in Earth's crust, he notes.
Also in the mat's base are tiny lumps of glasslike carbon that probably formed from molten droplets of the element. These lumps, as well as little spheres of carbon with a different microstructure, contain nanoscale diamonds formed under intense pressure.
A host of unusual geological features, collectively known as Carolina Bays, hints at the cataclysm's location, says team member George A. Howard, a wetland manager at Restoration Systems, an environmental-restoration firm in Raleigh, N.C. Around 1 million of these elliptical, sand-rimmed depressions, measuring between 50 meters and 11 kilometers across, scar the landscape from New Jersey to Florida. In samples taken from 15 of the features, Howard and his colleagues found iridium-rich magnetic grains and carbon spherules with tiny diamond fragments similar to those found at Clovis archaeological sites.
The long axes of the great majority of the Carolina Bays point toward locations near the Great Lakes and in Canada—a hint that the extraterrestrial object disintegrated over those locales, says Howard.
Because scientists "haven't discovered a large, smoking hole" left by the event, the object that blew up in the atmosphere probably was a comet, says West.
Heat from the event would have set off wildfires across the continent, the scientists suggest. The heat and shock from the explosion probably broke up portions of the ice sheet smothering eastern Canada at the time, they add. The flood of fresh water into the North Atlantic that resulted would have interrupted ocean currents that bring warmth to the region, and thick clouds of smoke and soot in the air would have intensified cooling across the Northern Hemisphere.
The inferred date of the event matches the beginning of a 1,200-year-long cold spell that geologists call the Younger Dryas, which in its first few decades saw temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere drop as much as 10°C.
Also see this post.
And from another source about the site: Quote:
"People first arrived in this area 11,000 years ago. They belonged to what we now call the Clovis Culture and were the earliest known people to have inhabited North America. Named after the distinctive and beautifully crafted Clovis spear points they made, they were expert hunters of the large mammals of the Ice Age."
"These Clovis activity areas were uncovered directly under the Clanton Clay deposit, or the"black mat" which was laid down relatively rapidly and is primarily organic in composition. The origin of this black mat is a subject of debate, but its occurrence immediately over the Clovis sites has made absolute dates possible."
"The Clovis people were big game hunters who were always on the move following such game as the mammoth, mastodon, horse, bison, and tapir during the close of the last ice age. Their dependence on this now extinct mega fauna characterized their culture and was so complete, that one theory proposes the people of this culture may have actually contributed to the extinction of these animals by over hunting. In any case, the extinction of the game caused corresponding shifts in the life style and survival strategies of humans, and gave rise to the next cultural episode called the Archaic Period. "
Emphasis mine... Source.
EDIT: Added a news conference about the comet hit from YouTube
Edited by Hill (05/21/08 03:11 PM)
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dgt
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Posts: 1118
Loc: Anaheim, California
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I found this to be interesting, and possibly quite relevant.
" One objection to the idea of an impact origin for the lunar craters was the fact that all lunar craters are round. Astronomers assumed that most meteorites would have struck the moon at oblique angles, producing elongated craters. Barringer, however, had experimented by firing rifle bullets into rocks and mud, and had discovered that a projectile arriving at an oblique angle would nevertheless make a round hole. In 1923, Barringer's 12-year-old son Richard published an article in Popular Astronomy, using his father's rifle experiments to argue for the impact origin of the lunar craters; Barringer himself repeated the arguments a short time later in the Scientific American."
THE BARRINGER METEORITE CRATER
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DanielGrimes
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Hi,
not just carolina - this type of feature covers an area of hundreds of square miles to the south west of Buenos Aires in Argentina. This is a great one where the road not only crosses the lake, but there is a T-Junction in the middle of the lake. Driving over them, I got the impression that the rise in water levels is recent as they have flooded roads and fences.
Daniel
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Hill
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Quote:
" One objection to the idea of an impact origin for the lunar craters was the fact that all lunar craters are round. Astronomers assumed that most meteorites would have struck the moon at oblique angles, producing elongated craters. Barringer, however, had experimented by firing rifle bullets into rocks and mud, and had discovered that a projectile arriving at an oblique angle would nevertheless make a round hole. In 1923, Barringer's 12-year-old son Richard published an article in Popular Astronomy, using his father's rifle experiments to argue for the impact origin of the lunar craters; Barringer himself repeated the arguments a short time later in the Scientific American."
Thing is, not all craters are round. At very shallow angles, oval craters are created.  From Why are craters round?
There is more at A RE-EVALUATION OF THE EXTRATERRESTRIAL ORIGIN OF THE CAROLINA BAYS
Edited by Hill (08/14/07 02:36 PM)
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bluelite
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About 140 miles north of the Saint Martin, Manitoba, Canada impact crater and 1500 miles northwest of most major "Bays" lies a large lake (Lake Agassiz) with similar appearance to the "Bays" of the Eastern US. This oval shape is very apparent on the north end of the 115 mile long lake. If you follow the majority of Eastern US bays orientation back on a line northwest, you come very close to this lake.
A highly oblique impact here 13 thousand years ago would have struck the glacial ice sheet of the last ice age sending millions of tons of thick glacial ice on a low southeast trajectory.
However much geologic study has been done around this lake the past 100 years and nothing points to a terrestrial impacter. There are some interesting anomalies though.
Just north of the lake are a couple of flood deltas presumably laid down by rapid melting of glacial ice into what amounts to a rivers running under the existing ice sheet.
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Hill
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User ThomasFlores made quite an extensive placemark folder showing probable "bays" he found here.
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john2242b
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I posted some information in the earth brosing forum which may help his discussion. Carolina Bays in Cumberland County, NC 11/11/07 08:24 AM Contains locations and data for 118 Carolina Bays Found in Cumberland County, NC. The data was digitized from LIDAR DEM or calculated from digitized data.
Edited by john2242b (11/12/07 11:04 PM)
Edited by john2242b (11/15/07 05:11 AM)
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dgt
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Loc: Anaheim, California
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In Florida there are low oblong hills called "hammocks" that are all oriented in the same direction. The opposite of craters. Could these be formed by weather? By wave action millions of years ago when the area was under water? Could the bays be related in any way?
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Hill
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Searching for further evidence of an exploding meteor, Firestone and his team went looking for Wooly Mammoth ivory. They didn't find exactly what they were looking for, but found something of interest anyway. There is more about this discovery here.
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GElattu
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Watching these images, especially the arctic ones, one thing comes to mind: prevailing winds. If the "original" lake is somewhat round and the wind direction is pretty much the same year round it would make sense that one side of the lake is more eroded than the others. Waves beat the shore and soil is transported as the surface layer of water moves with the wind and the bottom layer to the opposite direction. Depending on the type of soil and the strength and direction variance of the wind the lake would be more or less elongated.
Or maybe it works the opposite way; the winds in North Carolina are generally from the southwest. Maybe small scale tests would show which way (if any) is more propable.
[Edit] From this page : "On Alaska's North Slope, the prevailing winds blow perpendicular to the long axes of the lakes. According to the traditional explanation, such winds set up currents within the lakes that erode the banks, particularly at the lakes' ends. Such currents would erode coarse-grained, sandy soils faster than fine-grained clay soils."
Edited by GElattu (01/23/08 03:12 AM)
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john2242b
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Sorry, the wind/water theory of creation of the Carolina Bays has been debunked recently. The more likely mechanism is a cometary impact.
Edited by Hill (04/15/08 12:56 PM)
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john2242b
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Re; Carolina Bays
Duplicate placemarks removed.
Edited by Hill (04/15/08 12:58 PM)
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Hill
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Here is more about Jon Pelletier's model concerning thaw slumping in Arctic lakes. There is also some reference to aeolean influences in the development of other Arctic lakes.
But the evidence for extraterrestrial origin of the Carolina Bays is strong and gets more convincing all the time. It is very difficult to make an argument for aeolean forces being the cause of the Carolina Bays.
Edited by Hill (01/23/08 10:21 AM)
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Hill
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Thanks for the additional locations, John. Most of those are now indiscernible from the air due to all of the building and farming in the area. One difficulty with unravelling the mystery of the bays is their rapid disappearance due to human activities.
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john2242b
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Indeed, humans are distroying the Bays rapidly. There are some conservation measures afoot to protect the unique flora and funa, but nature is losing ground. I'm hoping that some of the work we're doing will help in this regard.
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john2242b
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My next post - 5/25/08 - updates the Carolina Bays file to include the Bays that show in the NC streams map.
I have begun posting .kmz files, county by county, where I have digitized all the Carolina Bays. They are by county name, ie. Cumberland County Bays, Bladen County Bays, Robeson County Bays. My source files are the NC DOT LIDAR elevation maps. What are digitized are only the Bays that have enough rim to show up with an elevation difference with an elliptical shape in LIDAR. The largest one is 16.75606 square miles, and the smallest one is just under one acre. All the marked Bays together total 567.1777 square miles (all the numbers were generated by GM). Many more "ghost" Bay forms can be seen in Google Earth. The vast majority of the digitized Bays show signs of some drainage. Large flat areas with little drainage have lost their Bays, some to wind-blown sand and dust fill, some to vegetation and peat fill. Water flow seems important both for the initial flushing out of dust and sand and, in the areas where the Bays penetrated to the water level, slowing the infill by vegetation. The Bays were formed and most of the wind erosion happened before the rivers floods washed out the wide river valleys. This suggests a long period of desert-like conditions after the Bays were formed. In the flatter areas, Bay rims and rim breaches were important for the location of small streams which, in turn, tended to orient larger flows in alignment with the Bays. As has been the case with most of this research, there are more questions raised than answered.
The attached file shows all the Bays I've digitized, so far.
Attachment moved to this post
Edited by john2242b (05/29/08 05:11 PM)
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john2242b
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Post deleted by john2242b
Edited by Hill (05/15/08 01:32 PM)
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Hill
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Duplicate placemarks posted.
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bigfatpothead
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I found the impact crater that killed the dinosaurs!
I have sent this information to the USGS and they forwarded it to their
Astrogeology dept.
I was browsing google earth and found that a very large object hit the US and scraped along the surface before
Exploding in alabama and showering the midwest with huge rocks that left craters all over texas and arkansas. as well as Oklahoma and North Carolina
Most of these craters have taken the form of small ponds.
I am attaching my google earth places file so you can look at it yourself.
http://www.bigfatpothead.com/craters.kmz
The impact point is a hundred miles or so south east of huntsville Al.
And there is a huge impact crater that goes through 3 states.
The thing was so huge that it carved out the Appalachian mountains.
You can zoom in on them and see the serated edges of the object
Where it rolled and scraped the land.
Here are some images I put on my site
http://www.bigfatpothead.com/earth/1.jpg http://www.bigfatpothead.com/earth/2.jpg http://www.bigfatpothead.com/earth/3.jpg http://www.bigfatpothead.com/earth/4.jpg
Thanks
Roland A. Duby
http://www.brothersformercy.org
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Hill
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Your geology seems confusing BFP.
First: Quote:
Exploding in alabama and showering the midwest with huge rocks that left craters all over texas and arkansas. as well as Oklahoma and North Carolina
Most of these craters have taken the form of small ponds.
I am attaching my google earth places file so you can look at it yourself.
http://www.bigfatpothead.com/craters.kmz
Your placemark locates one of many man-made stock ponds in the area. Some are round. Others are oval, rectangular, and random shapes. These ponds are created in this area - and throughout the world, to water livestock. The mechanism is a bulldozer, not meteoric debris. And whatever the reason for their formation, a small pond will not last for 65,000,000 years. Even large lakes come and go in much shorter time periods than that.
Second: Quote:
The impact point is a hundred miles or so south east of Huntsville, Al.
And there is a huge impact crater that goes through 3 states.
The thing was so huge that it carved out the Appalachian mountains.
You can zoom in on them and see the serated edges of the object
Where it rolled and scraped the land.
Here are some images I put on my site
http://www.bigfatpothead.com/earth/1.jpg http://www.bigfatpothead.com/earth/2.jpg http://www.bigfatpothead.com/earth/3.jpg http://www.bigfatpothead.com/earth/4.jpg
Your screen shots of Alabama highlight geologic structures that are much older than 65,000,000 years, the time of the demise of the dinosaurs. ( Current geological models and evidence point to Chicxulub Crater of the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico as the crater that helped to end the dinosaurs' reign)
Source
The parallel stripes in the southern and western part of Alabama are rocks which were laid down during retreat of the waters of an inland sea which once almost split what is now North America. They date from less than 65 MY to over 95 MY. The rocks trending SW from the NE corner of the state are the ancient (480 MY) eroded Appalachians
There is a known meteor crater under Wetumpka, AL. It is well eroded and was proven by drilling deep below the surface structures. It has a diameter of about 4 miles and is about 81 MY old. There is a link here.
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john2242b
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