Dear Localt,

Thank you for ur update on the Jisr Al Zarqa site. I will check what you have provided and correct it in my next update if it is true.

No it is not "funny" that a Jewish guy may know better than me. Actually most of our most reliable info about the Nakba came from israeli historians who had access to the archives of the 1948 era.

The political situation of the 1948 and the UN resolutions are not the subject of this discussion, not for me at least.

Peace

Thameen




Discourse not related to discussion of placemark(s) removed.

Dear Andy

Thank you for your input and nice words.

Yes I think that it is very difficult to deal with history and make every one happy, specially with a subject which is the material of a bloddy conflict.

But I believe also that trying to understand history in as neutral tems as possible is very important for making peace.

It is sensitive to deal with history, but it creates dialoge, and dialoge dissipates fears and creatues mutual understanding. And that is good.

I visited some of ur posts and I liked them, will check the rest soon



Thameen

That will be a nice project

But I do not like the term " ....provide some balance...."

I hate to think that some people see in the tragedy of Eastern Jews as a BALANCE to the tragedy of Palestinian refugees.

I think it is a good idea to document the plight of the Eastern Jews who came from arab countries because it is a tragedy and because we need to understand history, not because it is a BALANCE.

Thameen

The tragedy of being refugees was shared by over 100 million people during and after the second world war, when empires collapsed and new world order has been formed. None of those refugees have kept their status, and they integrated within the countries they were deported to. None, except the palestinians, who were less than .6% of the then refugees. The difference is that the arab states, the palestinian's hosts, would not accept the outcome of the failed war which they asserted in 1948, and maintained the refugee status to all palestinians, limiting their movement and denying them basic civil rights. Meanwhile, about the same number of jews left the same arab countries and migrated to Israel.

In India and Pakistan, where massive populations were displaced, following their independance, there are no refugee camps anymore. The same goes to Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, South Korea, and many many more.

One cannot undo history, nor can the palestinians deny the sad fact that they should consider other options, rather than to pray - and act - to annihilate Israel. So far, this was the only mode they operated.

I would just like to make a small correction,
the main two main problems stopping the peace procces between,
israel,and a part of its population wich refuses to see itself as part,
of the country they live in,calling themselves the palestinians,
Is:
1)For some reason the "palestinian" population wants to dump every jew in the state of israel into the sea,and they want to have the entire country.
2)Also the state of israel has no problem about the jewish and non jewish population who think israel has no right to exist,or publicly protest against its decisionsand lets them live in its country,
It would be suacide for any jew or non-jew to go and live in in "palestinian" teritorry,and say that they should become part of israel,
and let prosperity and a huge drop in crime enter their lives.
And just try to say that the so called "jihad"(wich for some reason i dont understand,it is a holy deed to purposefully blow up little kids on buses),
is wrong,and its death for you.
in isarel that does not happen,its called democracy and free speech,
While,apparently in the "palestinian territories"they understand democracy to be a corrupt election,and eanstead of free speech,
theyve got free murder.
The refugees have a right to the place they live in,of course,
But only the ones that have a valid excuse why they left the country,
aparently there where around a million others who sought it was OK to stay in israel,and di not listen to the calls of the clergy to leave,eanstead of be under the jurisdiction of the jewish infidels.
And there is this:

� Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph Sept. 6, 1948.

"The Arab state which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees."

At least half of the refugees left of their own free will,some maybe had a military record to hide,while others just left,because of the calls of the clergy o.r the hope of a invading army,in which case the arab states
that where going to send the armies should care for them,
which is mostly already the case,
as almost all of the refugees settled in those countries,
so that the job is already half done,
Now the refugees have turned into several millions,
so bringing them into israel,will cause a huge problem,
to put it mildly.

Congratulations and thanks for the astonishing amount of work you've put into creating this set of placemarks.

I have the utmost admiration for your tolerance and patience in corresponding about what must be, to you, a very emotional subject.

Peace,
Paul

I think that today we are mature enough as a nation to look in a mirror and say that, yes, we did expell most of the arabs of then Palestine, during and right after the 1948 war.
And honest enough to say that we had no other choice but to do it, because otherwise the creation of Jewish national state would be impossible.

It is also worth noting, that for the most part the inhabitants of the evicted villages were not innocent bystanders. Most of the mature male arabs in Palestine took active part in the attempted genocide of the Jewish population, initiated by neighboring Arab states.

Let's have no illusions. Had we lost the 1948 war, the entire Jewish community of Palestine, including those that had just excaped the claws of the Nazis, would have been massacred. It was us or them. Had we kept the majority of Arabs here, the Jewish state would have been impossible - instead living in the middle of Tel-Aviv would have been like living in the middle of Gaza or Hebron today. This is not why we came here, is it? This is also the reason why there must never, ever be any way for the refugees to return - otherwise we will simply loose the state.

I have no regrets, although I do recognize the tagedy of the situation. We have no way back, to the past where the millions of us would again be subject to the whim of some nation suddenly gone insane. The chief purpose behind the creation of Israel - "Never Again" - has to be maintained, and for it to be maintained, Israel must by necessity stay a jewish nation-state - no way back, no refugee return. That's just it. On the other hand, the palestinians have no way BUT back, because the Arab states refuse, on purpose, to assimilate them, by that reducing them to a status of weapon against Israel. They fight for what they see is justice, but our ideas of what is just are completely opposite.

So, here we are. All that remains to be said, is this -
We, the Jews of Israel, either accept that the UN decision to create the state of Israel in 1948 was wrong, and we are not worthy of sovereignity - and then the only honest thing left to do would be to pick up the luggage, go to airport and fly straight to some place like Canada or Australia...
Or, we forget about our silly attempts to try to stay with our hands clean while living in the slaughterhouse, and we start maintaining the law and order here - OUR law and order - using the same methods King Hussein used during Black September and Assad used in Hama. They are still in power, are they not?

If we will keep on refusing to accept the fact that we are in the Middle East, and not on the beach of Geneva Lake - consider the first option, and emigrate to Europe. Ah, and don't forget to visit Auschwitz on your way there. That just might remind you of the reason that was for the state you just gave up on.

I think your first option is by far the more honest and honorable one. Just my 2 cents.

It appears that this discussion has run it's course within the parameters of this BBS. There's a lot more to be said on both sides, but this is not the proper forum for that kind of interchange.

There are MANY discussion boards and forums elsewhere (about 12.6 million, in fact) where political discussions regarding this topic is not only appropriate, but encouraged. Please continue this in one of those places.

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7/19 - This thread is now reopened for discussion about the placemarks. The current situation in the region is off-topic, as is any other reply not directly related to this excellent collection of placemarks.

Keep it civil. In here, we are not Israeli, Palestinian, Eastern, Middle Eastern, Western, or anything other than fellow Google Earth Community citizens. Any replies added to this thread that obviously denigrate, insult or otherwise detract from the diplomatic tone set by the original poster will be removed, as per the BBS rules.

Let's play nice, and learn something in the process.

Thanks for unblocking the discussion. I hope this forum stays professional and neutral as much as possible.

Plz residents of Israel/Palestine, I'm waiting your feedback regarding the correct coordinates of the villages.

Thameen