Why is it such a secret that there are Arabs of Muslim faith who live in Israel (in predominantly Arab towns) work for the good of the country, some serve in the military, attend same schools and universities as Jews, work, have fun, run businesses, make friends with Jewish Israelis, practice their religion, take part in the government - lead normal lives? There is a ton of Arabic Israelis like that. They are above the hatred spoonfed by people trying to turn the general Arab population in the region (and far outside the region) into a puppets consumed by hate and religious zeal. Why would people allow themselves to be manipulated in this manner? Is it that difficult to realize what is being done to them, who is doing it and why?

Jay,

Beyond Felafel, humus and coffee, Israeli Arabs also make fine doctors and alongside jewish doctors treat Israelis (Arabs, Jews and other minorities) as well as Non Israeli Palestinians looking for treatment in Israeli hospitals.

While i am sure it is not your intention, it seems a bit condescending admiring minorities for their culinary expertise.

But as Vayesachek mentions below, there are many other postive things happening...and it makes you wonder why the Israeli government has had such a hard time giving 100% equal treatment to these people caught between loyalties. (Israel's political system has always been discimatory of fringe populations...so it may not be chauvinsim per se).

I think the point of this thread for us, Israelis and Jews who are interested in cooperation and living together with Arabs is to point to the fact that it is not enough to be nice to Palestinians (those who are Israeli citizens and those who are not)...but we must:

1. recognize their feelings and pain

2. respect their traditions and culture and their right to express them

3. recognize their right to a state committed to living in cooperation with Israel and the other neighboring Arab states.

They on their part have much work to do as well in the our direction.

I write this after my daily walk around the parameter of my kibbutz, where outside the fence that surrounds the kibbutz I see their orchards, green and luscious, bordering our orchards, just as green. The beauty the eye sees sometimes hides much harsher realities of the people who harvest these trees.

The original poster described this as a "grand post". However, I see it more as an act of cartographic vandalism. It is now not possible to browse around Israel with the entire "Google Earth Community" layer turned on without having the map cluttered with numerous distracting placemarks. And while the poster makes pretences of having no political agenda, it is abundantly clear that this is not the case. Until such time as the original post is deleted (and I'm not holding my breath), my suggestion to remedy this situation is to turn off the "History Illustrated" sublayer (rather than the entire "Google Earth Community" layer) while browsing around Israel.

To the moderator:

It is not my intent to make this issue personal, but I have to tell you that I take great exception to your previous post.

You describe this collection of placemarks as "excellent". Can you honestly expect to have any credibility as a neutral moderator when you have taken such a clearly biased position? Does Google condone this? Has Google now taken a position on the Mideast conflict?

Let me tell you how I describe the collection of placemarks: cartographic vandalism. The entire map of Israel is now almost totally obscured with the placemarks from this post. To suggest that they are only a collection of placemarks and that they are not politically charged or even slightly controversial is completely absurd. Each and every placemark links to an external website full of lies, propaganda and misinformation intended to discredit and villify Zionism and the State of Israel.

You say, "In here, we are not Israeli, Palestinian, Eastern, Middle Eastern, Western, or anything other than fellow Google Earth Community citizens..." If that were truly the case, do you honestly believe that this post with its provocative title "Nakba- The Palestinian Catastrophe" would even exist? I agree with you that the original poster set a relatively diplomatic tone, but to suggest that he doesn't have an ambitious political agenda would be incredibly naive.

You refer to the BBS rules. I have read these. The very first section states, "Participants shall not post any material likely to cause offence...". I can assure you that I as well as many others, a number of whom have previously spoken up, find this post incredibly offensive. As a result, it is not only likely to cause offence, it actually does cause offence. For this reason, I request that it be removed forthwith.

I, on the other hand, have found it an excellent and well-researched overview.

Ultimately, there will always be somebody who will find offence at pretty much every post.

The moderators have the difficult task of differentiating posts created in order to cause offence from those posts at which someone may take offence depending on their point of view, level of education and so on.

This post clearly falls into the latter category, and I congratulate the moderators' decision to let this valuable piece of historical research stand.

As we continue to shed each others blood...
Haaretz Newspaper has an article about the story of some Shi'ite villages around the Israeli/Lebanese border leading up to the War of 1948.

Haaretz article


A careful read of this article will teach us about the stories of the villages, the townspeople and the attitudes of some of the Jewish pioneers of the time who were looking for a joint future.

As moderators, we are neutral, and will not take a position on either side.

Esterrett described the collection as "excellent" because he felt the creator put a lot of time in his post and utilized Google Earth very well. The user included map overlays, photos, and links, along with many placemarks with descriptions. "The current situation in the region is off-topic, as is any other reply not directly related to this excellent collection of placemarks." The quote directly says the collection of placemarks are excellent, not the content or opinions.

"The current situation in the region is off-topic, as is any other reply not directly related to this excellent collection of placemarks."

This excellent collection of placemarks reflects on the current situation and is interpreted as such very consistently by people on both sides of the fence. You truly have to be blind not to see that in some of the responses.
There are controversial and hotly contested half-truths to the original post and the info in the linked material. By letting the original thread stand, but suppressing the discussion (which cannot help but spill over to modern day) contesting the controversial statements made by the author, you, moderator, take the side - willingly or otherwise - of the author. Also, yours is the face of Google, Inc. in this microcosm.
It is impossible to separate this into a purely historical thread - the history is yet to be made. Can you say that this is not a transparent enough attempt to re-write history? Are you sure Google wants to be part of it?

Ben (or is it his bong?):

Read a certain way, your post could be interpreted as saying that I have a narrow point of view and am uneducated. However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

Unfortunately, I can't agree with you on the issue of intent to cause offence. The BBS rules don't speak to that distinction and I don't believe that it can be reasonably inferred. In the final analysis, subject matter that is likely to cause offence is subject that is likely to cause offence, whether it was intended that way or not. I submit to you that one would have to be incredibly naive to think that such volatile subject matter as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as presented from one side's point of view is not likely to cause offence. Furthermore, the fact that you found the material informative does not diminish in any way from the fact that it is likely to cause offence to many others.

I don't want to detract from the great work that you do as moderators, because I know that you all work very hard and have rightfully earned the gratitude of this community. That being said, however, I find the argument being made here ridiculous.

Anyone with a passing knowledge of cartography will know that maps have been used as a principal tool of propaganda throughout the ages, including in many geopolitical conflicts where they have been frequently used to great effect. The suggestion that the placemarks are "excellent" because they make good use of the technology available to the poster is completely absurd. This is like saying that "Triumph of the Will" is an "excellent" film because of it stunning cinematography and captivating narrative technique. Whatever its artistic merit, it remains a propaganda tool in the same way that this collection of placemarks remains a propaganda tool, whatever its cartographic or technological merit.

Again, I respectfully request that the original message along with the associated placemarks be deleted without further delay.