#936362 - 10/09/07 10:38 AM
Re: Possible Fate Of Steve Fossett
[Re: cen_sored]
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Searcher
Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 1788
Loc: NV
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Quote:
He means that the area for the new images is too small.
WHO are you refering to ???
USE the quote button when posting about a previous post so we can try to follow your post...please...
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#936365 - 10/09/07 11:09 AM
Re: Possible Fate Of Steve Fossett
[Re: cen_sored]
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Searcher
Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 1788
Loc: NV
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Quote:
That was me jiving you..no REAL UPDATES to be had from the bureaucracy etc. etc. Do you remember the Utah Miners...They've never been recovered! Earthquakes came into play there too.
If you read the tech reports from the mine accident..the tremors were caused by retreat minning and not earthquakes..you can't remove that much coal and then remove the support structrure on your way out and not expect the mine to colapse on it's self...and the owners of the mine were told that practice was dangerous..but they did it to save money...
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#936366 - 10/09/07 11:16 AM
Re: One Fatal
[Re: cen_sored]
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Searcher
Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 1788
Loc: NV
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Quote:
If there was a breach of any protocol relating to security for anything...someone tied their shoes wrong, the gov can clam up! Which is how this seems now at this point in the investigation. They do not have a shred of evidence and their files will eventually be destroyed, by Them!
While I don't agree with the lack of imformation from the "official" searchers...I can see their view to a point...with all the "yahoo's" out there looking for their piece of the "Fossett pie" the first priority of the "Official" searchers is to protect the crash site from anyone who wants to disturb evidence...this is required by CFR 49 part 830 for the NTSB regulations and all LE/CAP/SAR and any pilot for that fact is required to compy with these reg's and protect the crash site until relieved by LE/FAA/NTSB
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#936367 - 10/09/07 11:17 AM
Re: Are we going to get new satellite photos?
[Re: KenBarbalace]
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Searcher
Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 470
Loc: France
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Quote:
A week ago we were supposed there was great optimism that we were going to be starting on new satellite photos, but we are still rehashing photos that have been gone over several times.
I am not a pilot, then maybe my opinion interests you in no way, but, as the conceited 145 I.Q. European I am, I think I have suitably understood the only one serious info we have got since one month (and some of the obvious realities of your art, pilots, that Vanaj hurled in my headphones in this forum, lol). So... Until I receive personally the proof that somebody, somewhere, retained major information and makes fun of my (our) intelligence since a entire month, I'm absolutely certain that Fossett's plane is somewhere on the GeoEye_Delivery4 imagery.
Nevertheless...
I roar for any on-ground testimonies since the beginning, and no-one up there seems to be very communicative to confirm officially that we - all around the world - search at the right place.
Seen from above, "googling" closely, the sector in where we seek does not seem such a desert. Really, in a month of inquiry, no-one found any --skuse me, locals-- palooka at palookaville who saw a plane, heard a plane, shot down some thing that buzzed over his head, or collected some fragments of a plane to repair his f(beep) tractor, anything like that? No nothing? Incredible? NOT credible?
Nevertheless...
My opinion (assuming the poor value it has) is we must continue turking until we found absolutely all the planes lost in this area. If we fail in saving Fossett's life, if we fail in offering the truth about his fate to his family, remember that there are (at least 150 !) other planes lost here and that we have today the power of numerous people (which means " peu prs": democracy) to get one day (that is statistically inevitable) the incomparable pleasure to bash the little ass of some files shredders.
Friends, if you are bored by the centers of MTurk squares, take a closer look to the edges, lol.
20:22 here. Good Afternoon, America. Best Regards. I return to my Turk.
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#936368 - 10/09/07 11:22 AM
Re: Are we going to get new satellite photos?
[Re: KenBarbalace]
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Master Guide
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10413
Loc: Southern California
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I'm not a Google employee, just an unpaid volunteer who tries to help bring some sort of order to the various sub-forums of this community. I have no idea when or if any new imagery is coming down the pipe. That is in the hands of Google, its satellite providers, Amazon, and the urgings of the Fossett team. I do know that there have been many more cloudy periods recently than there were in the beginning of September when he went missing. Satellite orbit, timeof day, time of year, percentage of ground masked by clouds, satellite and ground station glitches, etc. all play a part in when downloaded imagery is useful. I've scanned the Google Earth globe for about 3 years for the fun and education it provides. I've also spent many an hour trying my best to interpret what I see. One of the best aspects of this forum is the collaboration it allows about things that seem unual or that need clarification or identification. Early on in this thread I posted: Quote:
Re: Branson turns to Google to find Steve Fossett [Re: danescombe]
#994123 - 09/06/07 12:45 PM
I remember when Jim Gray went missing in his boat off San Francisco, current satellite photos were searched using Amazon's Mechanical Turk. He was never found but then again the area was mostly clouded over and was experiencing rough seas. There doesn't seem to be a similar opportunity to sign up for a search this time.
EDIT: Obviously, the situation changed and Mechanical Turk was employed
That being said, and after having using MTurk for a relatively few 600 hits or so in the first few weeks of the search, I have some reservations about the way things have worked out and the relative usefulness of this method, at least at the resolution that has been available.
The resolution was moderately good, but not great. (Of course the best resolution you see in GE is that collected by aerial photography.) If the plane had crashed on nice relatively level treeless terrain, the satellite imagery could have detected it. But then too could the many planes and observers, and they probably would have early in the search. If the plane came down in rocky and/or heavily vegetated terrain, the imagery in my opinion has not been good enough and leads to way too many false hits. Of course live observers in the air face the same problem.
I think Mturk would have worked better if it only provided its small area images and lat/lon coordinates, and no GE overlay. I believe the overlay's availability led to lots of wheel-spinning speculation, often tied to zooming in way too close to provide any useful information. Using only the small images provided, which are zoomed in to the most useful elevation, concentrates your eyes on that one area only and allows for a much more systematic search. On the rare occasion that something looks anomalous, copy the lat/lon and paste it into the GE search box and compare. It would still be possible to copy the small image properties and include it in your post or even create an overlay if you want to get another users opinion. (Right-click on the image - choose properties - copy and paste "location")
Code:
[image]http://s3-external-1.amazonaws.com/Fossett-GE4/GeoEye_4/imagery/0312111111_0.jpg[/image]
which gives you this...
Pass on hits that have no hint of your target and only accept those that really look promising.
This change would speed up the search and keep it on target, in my opinion.
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#936370 - 10/09/07 11:56 AM
Mturk
[Re: cen_sored]
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Traveler
Registered: 10/08/07
Posts: 2
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Could someone please check this location at a prior date: 38.272934,-118.372879
On the turk it appears as a possibility with some white specs in a tree-lined area. I'm at a school lab and can't DL GE...
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#936371 - 10/09/07 12:12 PM
Re: Are we going to get new satellite photos?
[Re: KenBarbalace]
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Traveler
Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 347
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Quote:
A week ago we were supposed there was great optimism that we were going to be starting on new satellite photos, but we are still rehashing photos that have been gone over several times. Are we going to be getting new photos or new intelligence helps us focus in on the most probably search area? Winter is quickly moving in to the high mountain areas and it seems we are spinning our wheels and getting no where.
I really want to keep up the effort to find Steve Fossett, but I do not want to be wasting my time on a futile effort (the MTurk search) that has been written off as a useful search tool and they are not interested in providing us with new imagery or guidance as to where to search.
None of us who are still searching for Steve Fossett want to give up the search for him, but if we are not covering new areas and using the best available information to determine where we should be looking we are wasting our time and not helping to achieve the ultimate objective.
Yes, it is a concern that we are being left to speculate rather than being provided a status of any kind from the private search effort.
We do know from Brian (of VS) that the private effort was previously reviewing the output. He said a few days ago that he would reach out to gain status, but have not heard any results from his communication yet.
It is obvious (to me) that if the private search effort considered this high priority there would have been some communication about new imagery, etc. So, speculating, I would have to think they may have limited resources, and be using them to find him by other means. Perhaps they do not have the manpower to review hundreds of false positives from the imagery analysis. (Anyone that has reviewed the 'hits' posted on VS knows that most folks post coords for things that are on the old imagery. And Demian has provided similar results from his review of the Mturk summary data.)
It's all been talked about here: need training and qualifying criteria, need better images, need images in areas not supplied, need better info on where Fossett actually went and was last seen, etc. But for this specific search effort, the lack of communication from the (only remaining) private search team does lead one to believe that they are not as hyped on this effort as they could be.
I still think new area images and better Geo-4 area images would be worthwhile (Geo-4 is dark), but we have been waiting a long time to get any follow-up or feedback.
In the meantime, personally, I have gone back to work, but am still spending some time every day on this, and plan to continue.
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