#1165434 - 10/16/08 10:50 PM
NTSB interest..
[Re: MONDARIZ]
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Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 1788
Loc: NV
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Quote:
If NTSB are unable to establish Fossett's path by radar tracking (now that they actually have the final destination), or some other sure-fire technology, the NTSB report will not cover his progress from Flying M ranch to the accident site in any detail. It will only cover the actual site and the conditions that can be established directly from looking at the wreck. They do not concern themselves with guesswork.
Agreed....
At this point they are interested in the why now that they know the where...the how he got there is not really important at this point...their [NTSB] main objective is to discover the why and hopefully to learn from any problem that may have been present and create an AD if there was a mechanical problem.
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#1165435 - 10/17/08 12:38 AM
Re: Summary 12 Months on.
[Re: MONDARIZ]
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Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 487
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some people reported, but obviously went nowhere
comment by hikerduane
http://www.highsierratopix.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=20138
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good find pineshi,
someone should keep track of all these and send them to the NTSB so they can interview the persons and their sightings,
im sure it would be appreciated by the NTSB so they dont have to try and chase all this down themselves
ww
A lot of these "sightings" are not worth reporting.
NTSB are concerned about facts in connection with a crash, not hearsay, or what people think they remember a year later (hence no interviews will be made). They want less noice, not more.
The forum post by hikerduane has no value to any accident investigation.
It would not even have been followed, if he had reported it while the search was still going on, as its impossible to follow all reports, in particular when they have little credibility.
Unless a random plane-spotter had taken the reg down, or someone had actually seen the crash, these reports are, for the most part, just someone who saw an aircraft that day, often someone who couldn't tell the difference between a Decathlon and a 747, let alone by the sound.
In a scenario where absolutly no other air traffic could have been in the area (perhaps a remote part of Greenland), they would have followed leads like this, but that day last september, there would have been hundreds of aircraft moving in the extended search area (anywhere within range) throughout the day. Obviously the far majoriy of any sighting would have been completely unrelated to Steve Fossett.
If NTSB are unable to establish Fossett's path by radar tracking (now that they actually have the final destination), or some other sure-fire technology, the NTSB report will not cover his progress from Flying M ranch to the accident site in any detail. It will only cover the actual site and the conditions that can be established directly from looking at the wreck. They do not concern themselves with guesswork.
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any investigation ive ever seen has involved witness reports , thats the first thing they gather in any accident as it all helps to piece together a scenario
anybody seen anything ? any video? what did you see? what did you hear? where was that? what time was that? were you partying at the time? where was that? anyone else at the party see anything ..etc etc etc
they are quite capable of deciding which witness reports are valid or invalid or meaningless. they leave no stone unturned. every bit of information is of some value, particularly in this case
if someone hears an engine running and suddenly it stops running thats an important observation to take into consideration, it may not be a fact yet but it is an observation and is important . the stop engine couild be the crash itself or it could be a fuel or mixture problem cutiing the engine out, or the plane descending and out of sound hearing range. leaning of the mixture at that altitude on that engine is important, mess it up in either direction and you lose power
had anyone paid attention to the cop report that day that said the cop saw a plane like SF's flying low around mammoth lakes they could immediately have gone around the town and campsites looking for more data to build on that, but no one did that
for example I doubt they did their own investgation into the rawley report and did a complete follow up and "reverification", they accepted the facts that it was all truth and their couldnt be an error somewhere but as ive laid out before i believe there was an error in verification of that data of the date the cowboy saw what he saw, I think it was worthwhile reverifying in any case
i do agree that not all witness reports can be relied on but they are usefull for some things and perhaps to aid in the final truthful analysis of the problem
WW
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#1165462 - 10/17/08 12:58 AM
Summary 12 Months on. *DELETED*
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Post deleted by canwhitewolf
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#1165464 - 10/17/08 01:40 AM
Re: Summary 12 Months on.
[Re: vanaj]
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Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 487
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yes i reposted it because of this eye witness report that no one observed upon, maybe this leads credence to rawleys report or maybe not but worthwhile observing in any case in keeping with witness reports etc
i didnt pinpoint the location this guy is talking about, maybe someone can put up a pic of where this is
comments section
I am intrigued by you questions and have thought likewise. I have a vacation home in Mammoth and spend more than half my time there. That hiking area is my favorite. The morning of labor day 2007, I made a shopping trip to Carson Valley NV and as usual took the back roads instead of 395, that is California 182 which one picks up just before you enter Bridgeport. Just inside the Nevada line , right after the livestock ranch -- well known location and very near Hilton ranch which is inland from 182, I saw a blue citabria overwing. He was flying pretty low, ,<500 feet or so above the ground but not scary low. I had never before nor since seen a plane in this canyon. The main notice was that the plane was really loud and groaning and as I have piloted small planes this really got my attention. I stopped. But the pilot moved on quickly to direct south so he was very soon over 395 or on that trajectory. The time was between 10:30-11, my estimate.
Posted by: epi | October 16, 2008 at 08:32 AM
ww
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#1165465 - 10/17/08 10:22 AM
Re: Summary 12 Months on.
[Re: canwhitewolf]
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Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 1788
Loc: NV
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Quote:
I am intrigued by you questions and have thought likewise. I have a vacation home in Mammoth and spend more than half my time there. That hiking area is my favorite. The morning of labor day 2007, I made a shopping trip to Carson Valley NV and as usual took the back roads instead of 395, that is California 182 which one picks up just before you enter Bridgeport. Just inside the Nevada line , right after the livestock ranch -- well known location and very near Hilton ranch which is inland from 182, I saw a blue citabria overwing. He was flying pretty low, ,<500 feet or so above the ground but not scary low. I had never before nor since seen a plane in this canyon. The main notice was that the plane was really loud and groaning and as I have piloted small planes this really got my attention. I stopped. But the pilot moved on quickly to direct south so he was very soon over 395 or on that trajectory. The time was between 10:30-11, my estimate.
Posted by: epi | October 16, 2008 at 08:32 AM
Many questions come to mind to ask this person...first...is he not aware there is an airport in this canyon ?
I have a friend that is a pilot for the cattle company that owns that livestock ranch...they depart the Fresno area and fly to Bridgeport then on to Yerington...this canyon is the route of choice since the elevation is much less than other routes...guess this guy does not drive that canyon all that ofter.
Why drive a more dangerous road that takes you longer to get to your destination unless you are trying to avoid the Stateline checkpoint on 395. In the past year I have been run off that road by drivers crossing over the yellow line twice.
Maybe it was Sept 2nd and he saw Hoover teaching aerobatics on not Sept 3rd.
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#1165466 - 10/17/08 01:46 PM
Re: Summary 12 Months on.
[Re: vanaj]
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Searcher
Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 487
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Quote:
Quote:
I am intrigued by you questions and have thought likewise. I have a vacation home in Mammoth and spend more than half my time there. That hiking area is my favorite. The morning of labor day 2007, I made a shopping trip to Carson Valley NV and as usual took the back roads instead of 395, that is California 182 which one picks up just before you enter Bridgeport. Just inside the Nevada line , right after the livestock ranch -- well known location and very near Hilton ranch which is inland from 182, I saw a blue citabria overwing. He was flying pretty low, ,<500 feet or so above the ground but not scary low. I had never before nor since seen a plane in this canyon. The main notice was that the plane was really loud and groaning and as I have piloted small planes this really got my attention. I stopped. But the pilot moved on quickly to direct south so he was very soon over 395 or on that trajectory. The time was between 10:30-11, my estimate.
Posted by: epi | October 16, 2008 at 08:32 AM
Many questions come to mind to ask this person...first...is he not aware there is an airport in this canyon ?
I have a friend that is a pilot for the cattle company that owns that livestock ranch...they depart the Fresno area and fly to Bridgeport then on to Yerington...this canyon is the route of choice since the elevation is much less than other routes...guess this guy does not drive that canyon all that ofter.
Why drive a more dangerous road that takes you longer to get to your destination unless you are trying to avoid the Stateline checkpoint on 395. In the past year I have been run off that road by drivers crossing over the yellow line twice.
Maybe it was Sept 2nd and he saw Hoover teaching aerobatics on not Sept 3rd.
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thats why re interviewing helps with all this stuff, to resolve these issues
dont know why he would know or need to know there is an airport in the canyon, but regardless maybe he doesnt always go that route but likes the scenery perhaps
he did say....
quote
The morning of "labor day 2007", I made a shopping trip to Carson Valley NV and "as usual" took the back roads instead of 395, that is California 182 which one picks up just before you enter Bridgeport. Just inside the Nevada line
unquote
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when is labor day in the usa?
Maybe it was Sept 2nd and he saw Hoover teaching aerobatics on not Sept 3rd.
as I have related before, that statement sounds more like what Rawley may have done
ww
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#1165467 - 10/17/08 03:22 PM
Re: Summary 12 Months on.
[Re: canwhitewolf]
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Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 1788
Loc: NV
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Quote:
dont know why he would know or need to know there is an airport in the canyon, but regardless maybe he doesnt always go that route but likes the scenery perhaps
Because he said he had never seen a plane in that canyon before or since...kind of unusual for a person not to see planes around an airport especially one who claims to be a pilot.
Quote:
Maybe it was Sept 2nd and he saw Hoover teaching aerobatics on not Sept 3rd.
as I have related before, that statement sounds more like what Rawley may have done
ww
Except for one fact....Rawleys date was verified by cell phone records...and not buying the idea that educated people/investigators can't tell the difference between Sept 2nd and Sept 3rd on a printed phone bill...
All one would have to do is to ask Hoover where he was on Sept 2nd...I'm sure the Hilton/SF team already took this fact into consideration...Now considering the fact that Hilton's pilot was in the plane with Hoover I would think he would know where/when he was...with your connections I would think you could find that out.
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#1165468 - 10/17/08 03:56 PM
Re: Summary 12 Months on.
[Re: canwhitewolf]
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Traveler
Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Sacramento, CA
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Hey, just wanted to say I'm very happy to have finally run across an active forum on the Fossett discovery. I've read the past 20 pages already, but have got a couple of questions for anyone interested in replying: Does anyone know of more quality crash site photos out there beyond these? http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockwellb/sets/72157607737959209/Anyone have any updates on the DNA analysis of the alleged "human" bone? I really hope the NTSB report will shed a little more light on the possible cause. Out of the myriad of theories proposed so far, incapacitation seems to carry the most weight IMHO. NW
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